Simons forks

[JohnnyO]

The factory suspension is a lot better than the standard stuff. Chad's just being politically correct. Why do you think he got 3 full works bikes shipped to Oz for the Super-x series. Getting back to the Simons.. they were a lot stronger than the 38mm forks of the day and the dampening action was a lot better and they had more travel.. There's 3 good reasons to use them, unless of course you were just a wobbler who rode a trailbike in a paddock.

[Ji Gantor]

Hi Lozza,
He goes on to say that there are only 2 people in the world that can use every part of a 450 bike. He does not say who they are but I think he means James and himself, which begs the question is Ricky dead?

I watched him start dead last against Jerry Mc and still got to the pointy end by the second lap.
He is no bodies fool. Sort of like Glen Bell.

Ji

[Ji Gantor]

Hi Johnny,
I have read Jeremy Mc's biography and he was caught out back in 1995/6 (or when ever). His new Honda frame worked like a pig so he resorted back to the last years model. He nearly got away with it until a mag writer noticed the differences. Then Honda made him change back.

Where is all this going, well I guess some times the new factory stuff is not miles better than a bike in the show room.

Ji

[JohnnyO]

Yes that's correct Ji, Jeremy preferred the '92 chassis right up until the last of the steel frames in '96. None of those guys use standard suspension on SX bikes, the valving and spring rates are so much firmer than stock and the internals are very different. If the bike was sitting in the showroom friday you can be sure that by sat night it had another set of the riders personal suspension bolted in along with a pipe, muffler, gearing, carburettor and maybe cylinder. It might still look like stock at a glance.

[Ji Gantor]

Hi Johnny,
Agreed.

I don't know about you but I have a KTM 125 SX that was set up for super cross racing and man is it harsh. I fear to jump because it is so stiff that I don't like the idea of coming down. The suspension to me is num, it tells me nothing about what I am riding over. Twin shock bikes on the other hand never stop communicating. I always feel happier on a twin shock bike going over a large jump or even braking.

Ji

[Ji Gantor]

Hi Walter,
Have you been to any bars in BK yet ?

A factory Works Bike is lets say a Honda that Jeremy Mc rode for Honda back in the 90s. Honda is the factory and Jerry was their sponsored rider or test pilot. So Honda would manufacture all different parts for his bike and he would test it for them and give them feed back on how the parts worked. Honda would go away and make new parts for next week for Jerry to test and so on through out the year of the racing season.

Ji

[JohnnyO]

Wasp if you are a suspension guy surely you must know the forks on a factory bike are hand made and machined from billet using better materials stronger and lighter than standard with precise tolerances, non stiction coatings, titanium springs and the very latest technology not yet on a production bike. I'm talking 2 wheeled factory works bikes ridden by the best on the planet. Are you talking sidecars or what??

[Marc.com]

What is a worksfork ?? What is definition of that ?  Why are they better? 

in the case of Showa there are 3 diffrent levels, the lowest being pre production 2010 up to the factory A Chad gets which comes with its own Japanese mechanic and goes straight back into the van at the end of the meeting. Apparently there is no comparison between the factory B suspension supplied to team riders and the A stuff that a couple of stars get to use. I was told that by someone who has used both.

The rest of the bike is pretty much stock but is used as a test bed for future pre production parts which is why riders end up with a pig occasionally. Also riders get saddled with poor performing sponsors stuff and play cat and mouse with returning the bike back to stock.

[LWC82PE]

i think the difference between Simons and KYB/Showa is that Simons actually put some thought into the damping design/specs where KYB/Showa forks were a compromise for mass production unless you had some of those aftermarket KYB forks from the late 70's which were 'works' type forks and pretty trick, that the public could buy at a cost and they were a lot better than the factory OEM forks. I read something the otherday in an old article where it said back then hardly any pro or top riders would be seen using the stock suspension and the common mods were to stick on a set of Fox air shocks and 44mm fox forks for example.

[Ji Gantor]

That is right Marc,
I believe that Chad also gets Bridgstone's proto type tyres that not even James gets. I think they spent $25000.00 for the set on his race bike. Those tyres are removed the second the bike has finished for the day.

Ji

[Lozza]

Johnny,  I'm not talking about 20 years ago I'm talking about right now. They are still just a plain old damper rod fork(albeit above OEM spec ).Nothing more, nothing less.
Stories or pics with some top line rider with them bolted on really is irrelevent, so me the report pic were the rider went from mid field to winning, just by bolting these on??? Factory riders have all sorts of stuff(I would have 10 good examples of this) that the humble privateer never will see or know about. It's the first rule of racing.A factory team (any factory) must always win, by any means. What factory riders do know is how to get the most out of the machine, THAT is the real difference.

[Ji Gantor]

Yes, pure talent is what matters.
My brother and I used to say ( back in the day ) that Stephen Gall could have won riding a step through. I think it was only a few years ago Grant Langston as a privateer got fourth or fifth overall . I remember seeing the awards ceremony where all the top 3 boys stood up and gave him a standing ovation because they knew he had really won that year.
I will check these facts to make sure it was Grant.

Ji

[Marc.com]

Friend of mine rode RCs bike with factory A, he was shocked how much of advantage in the whoops it gave.

The talent will get you there but equipment will finish the job.

[JohnnyO]

Lozza we're talking about simons forks on vintage bikes, people aren't buying them to put on modern bikes so why compare them to modern forks. They were amongst the best forks that a privateer could buy and race with in the Era they were made and better than most standard forks. Probably not as good as factory forks but privateers couldn't buy the same suspension as the full factory teams used. No they're not trick by modern standards but neither is a '79 CR250. Talent is what matters yes, and i didn't say anything about going from mid field to winning because of a set of forks so stop talking shit.



.

[JohnnyO]

Exactly marc.