Global financial crisis - what does it mean to you

[Marc.com]

Just sold our farm in Switzerland   the other day . For the 25 Hectares ,  the government used to pay 75 k/ pa just in subsidies.

Sold the farm, so I take it buying a new outfit is not a problem at the moment. Yeah I was reading some Swiss farmers who are sitting on milk production quotas are worth a lazy million before they sell the farm, based on the size of their subsidies, the farms are great investments without having to pull a tit in anger.

[mx250]

I didn't know the Swiss were up to these tricks and distortions.

Almost every major country does this or similar. It is probably insane in the longer term to forego your heritage and your ability to feed your own  people, in the name of profits. Russia drops $10+ billion per year minimum, Europe drops a massive €57 billion on subsidies to farmers and fishermen. The USA, that great centre of capitalism, subsidises primary industry directly to the tune of some $20 billion per year, however the total in grants and subsidies is supposedly an amazing $180 billion per year. Anybody who has to deal with China knows that everything is wrapped in protectionism of some form and they are pouring in funding for infrastructure and tax rebates to the tune of $20+ billion per year. Korea? $21 billion. Turkey punts 8% of GDP to its farmers.

What of Australia? Second from the bottom.
Who is indeed wide-open and truly on the 'level' playing field? - urm.. guess - New Zealand!

Luke

Interesting figures Luke. You seem particularly well informed .

I've been generally aware for some time but didn't have those numbers. Australia produces wheat at a third the price of any other country in the world and we can't sell it against the subsidised euros and yanks. Not good for anyone but more to the point most of the citizen and city workers of those countries don't realise that every time they buy bread they are subsidising a farmer.

There are other policies they use to subsidise such as paying for barns and tractors with direct grants or indirect tax write offs, and other tricks and Industrial policies etc. My sister was 'forced' to buy a new car recently (the EPA argument) but got a 30% grant to update. Ditto when to rebuilt their house after an earthquake. They weren't allowed to change the shape or size but they went underground two floors - all on the taxpayer.

Australia does the same. Our car industry is subsidised to the tune of $2bil. What does that work out per car. And I'll bet not many Australian would know it.

In the medical field the Japs have a neat trick; to release a medicine you have to conduct trials on Japanese size people. Added time and cost to the foreigner giving the Japanese pharmaceuticals an opportunity to catch up.

[bazza]

like france big hurd is 20 cows in a barn-bloody riping the tax payer money

[Taka 100]

heres my spin on it who gives a rats arse get back to the garage and burn some rubber, the powers to be at the time will do what they want when they want then shove it where it fits usually in a dark place and we will wear it , get a good bottle of vodka and buy a cz or eruo bike cause they handle better than our jap crap that beat the hell outa us and win everyting and get over it, its ride time piss the synthetic oil off and run what you want , ps dont run benzol it melts pistons, at the end of the day feel the breeze in ya face we are all great blokes and gals  who love bikes and racing or doing them up and they can kiss our bl#@%K ar#%es if they like, we will be partying at the end , ask david attenbourough about these people we are saving to over run the world and eat our families outa house and home in 100yrs we are stuffed aids ridden , war mongering , rabbit mutiplying numbnuts , lets enjoy this while we can guys , stuff the rest of them we've got it right, take three deep breaths and repeat after me we are the champions my friends and we will be there till the end we are the champions we are the champions of the world , and thats all i got to say about that ,xx

[TooFastTim]

like france big hurd is 20 cows in a barn-bloody riping the tax payer money

The French are some of the least productive and most protected farmers in the western world.

[mx250]

Hmmmmmmmmm,

Italy now has a technocrat government/administration and the focus of the news shifts to.........

"Spain's borrowing costs have risen at its latest bond auction, as Spaniards prepare to vote for a new government to tackle its financial crisis.

On money borrowed today, payable in 10 years, Spain has to pay an interest rate of 6.975%, the highest since 1997.

A high rate or yield indicates investors may not have confidence in a government to fully repay its debts.

The figure is perilously close to 7% - the level at which other eurozone countries have had to seek bailouts................"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15771776

Another downward indicator..............and the pollies are still at each others throats..........and The Market still votes with it's feet .

[Marc.com]

Another downward indicator..............and the pollies are still at each others throats..........and The Market still votes with it's feet .

The whole bond market morphed into a trip to the track like the share market, bonds are supposed to represent a long term blue chip investment with a stable yield .... not another market to be exploited by finance companies created products like debt backed derivatives to leverage the debt obligation of the bond. Sovereign government bonds are the bedrock of the whole system, its like pulling the foundations out from under your house.

I think the destruction of the current form of the EU experiment was inevitable at the time of the Lehman crisis. You cannot have monetary union without political union and you cannot remove the stabilising effect of currency exchange as the Eurocrats are showing.

[mx250]

You cannot have monetary union without political union............

It was my impression and assumption that 'they', the shadowy grey suited euro technocrats in the back ground, intended greater political unity and were working their way towards that aim step by step. In fact I thought the Euro was stage one designed to highlight the benefits and, to some degree, to 'get them comfortable' and to 'lock in' the likely partners.

But with a combination of the events of the GFC, some overly optimistic economic (mis)management by the PIIGS and the predictable recalcitrance of historic enemies and their political leaders, events have caught up to the design and the design as been found wanting.   

Where to now Magoo? .

[Marc.com]

Where to now Magoo? .

It seems like everytime anyone from Paraeus to Birmingham even suggest putting continuing EU membership to public referendum everyone shits themselves. I think Europe could have maintained open border trade without the need of economic unity. Or optional economic unity..... but common sense got lost in a political fantasy land. I think they will have to roll back some of the treaty and go through years of negotiation again.

OR Germany could just go old skool and invade Greece 

[Marc.com]

There are many signs of an upcoming brew  ;)But   I dont think its the Germans this time ,  that will make the first move .

Nah I don't think it will be the Germans either, but hell I would sooner take my chances with the Hitler Youth than the Greek youth at the moment. I think the Pathenon is being thrown by Police stone by stone.

[mx250]

OR Germany could just go old skool and invade Greece 

In 1941 the Germany Invasion of Greece was an ill-advised time wasting distraction away from the Main Game. Germany had no interest in the Mediterranean pint size excuse for a country. The only reason Germany did it was to save their ally Italy.

Oh shit no, what am I saying - its history repeating itself.

[EML]

OR They could try the Chinses tact and just walk in a but them. China could use a lovely little azzure isle in the Med - to go with their cattle properties in Oz, dairy farms in NZ and diamond mines in Africa.

[Mike52]

I thought that Germany already owned Greece?
Didn't they buy it last week for 8 billion ?

[mx250]

Here's an interesting article which pretty much concisely explains the euro situation.

Is the euro about to capsize?
By Laurence Knight

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15592197

[Marc.com]

This was the inevitible outcome of Lehman ......  the Lehman Shock and the stimulus response triggered and explosion in public debt to support a lifestyle that was unsustainable.

So this time round Aussie and NZ are not as insulated as they were. This is a major economic contraction in all countries that finally will imapct on primary producers.