QVMX go Pre '90

[Nathan S]

Nathan that still doesn't make your opinion any more rational or valid than anybody elses.

Yep. Absolutely.
But I'm willing to explain how I've come to form my opinions, and why I think they are defensible.

And the way I figure it, if we're trying to do the best thing for the sport (rather than allowing it to be at the mercy of any "self interest factions"), then all of this analysis is really important.
To simply say "I don't like it, and that's all that needs to be said" is selling the whole sport short. Its also a big part of the reason why this topic keeps on being revisited, with no real resolution.

[VMX247]

Nathan that still doesn't make your opinion any more rational or valid than anybody elses.

Yep. Absolutely.
But I'm willing to explain how I've come to form my opinions, and why I think they are defensible.

And the way I figure it, if we're trying to do the best thing for the sport (rather than allowing it to be at the mercy of any "self interest factions"), then all of this analysis is really important.
To simply say "I don't like it, and that's all that needs to be said" is selling the whole sport short. Its also a big part of the reason why this topic keeps on being revisited, with no real resolution.

Nathan self interest factions can be a long and strong force,withstanding a barrage of bullshit

[Nathan S]

Yes, yes they can.

But we've got to do what we can to disarm them as much as possible - and sensible, in-depth, public discussion is a very good way.

[VMX247]

Nathan Nathan Nathan/ya got me wrong 
I'm my fathers daughter. 

I'm all for self interest factions like I said they are strong/with standing a barrage of bullshit 

[Nathan S]

:lol:
Actually, y'know that we're all "self interested" to some extent, and we'd be mad not to be.
The problems come when we only look after the self-interest, and forget to think what its like to be in another's shoes...

[VMX247]

I love to be in others shoes that's why I'm studying Aged Care and a member of four bike clubs.
I call it PASSION Nathan.
ps Aged care is to help and understand true classic VMX 

[mx250]

[worms]

all good points except the self interest one,

all things considered, all clubs have to consider how to maintain viability and what suites them.

 Since when, would anyone consider a pre 90 bike as vinatge, the debate isnt about renaming these bikes as vintage and SHOULD NEVER BE, it has been put forward as a Demo class, not rewriting the Holy Grail of VMX.

How many events have a support class?, all it is helping to do is cover costs and thus keeping costs down to min for their memmbers. no differant from a modern club offering a vintage class to help fill the gates  

so you have all gone off track with what really HAS been put forward,

IT WAS NOT PUT FORWARD TO RENAME PRE 90 BIKES AS VINTAGE. or ever class them this way.

My God , i ve just been told the sun hasnt come up today and we are all going to fall in this big hole , support class, who would ever think this one up, what were they thinking

cheers Trev

[worms]

great thoughts oldschool,

Lets not forget there is nothing definate yet, but i am putting some subjective views to keep the debate on track.

Cheers Trev

[STW996]

Quote from DJR

STW996, How much does it cost to get into the muscle car racing? Ask Nathan the cost of his pre75 bikes?
Do not confuse wanting to go motocross racing with the love of old dirtbikes, as is with the moto100 talked about in this forum, as that is a class for pre75, and isnt a club better to persue this avenue which is more infitting with the concept of VMX and is cheap (which could entice younger members) than adding a Pre90 class??

DJR You have missed my point completely on the Muscle car thing and you seam the type of bloke who is say if you dont ride pre 75 will piss off!!!!! As for the Moto 100 thing how easy is it to find these bikes in good riding condition? not as easy as a 86 or 87 125 that you could jump straigt on and ride, most new members want this kind of riding (that is my point of view)

This is the head in the sand stuff I was talking about.

Mate I have a pre 75 bike so at least let me have a say ok?

I sponsor events through my business as I enjoy vintage racing and what I have always called post vintage riding or racing,I am 44 Years of age and my favorite years of riding was late 70's early 80's so excuse me if my like of "newer" bikes in not in line with your thinking!!As for the QVMX club have you ever been to a QVMX meet? do you know what the club is about? If no then ask people who have and they will tell you it is an open club that pushes all years of racing not just pre 90!!!!

I don't need to ask Nathan the cost of his bikes I know what they cost NOW and I know how much parts go for so don't preach that BS to me.

This thread has come to an us and them discussion so this is the last time I will post on it as people are taking it as a personal attack on their ride and not looking at the sport as a whole.

[Maico31]

It probably is a little too soon to bring in pre 90 but it is going to happen sooner or later. 10 years ago they introduced Evo into Qld Vintage mx as a demo class with several people against it and it now has the biggest fields. At that time the pre 75 numbers had dropped right off and vintage motocross in Qld was looking a little shaky and we needed more competitors to keep the sport alive. The QVMX club days are attracting good numbers with Evo and Pre 85 the most popular but pre 75 still get a decent turnout so the introduction of both evo and pre85 hasn't harmed pre 75. I know a lot of us already have pre 90 bikes and are keen to give them a run.

[firko]

I've been reading back over this debate this morning and I think that we've all made our thoughts pretty clear on both subjects. I found one small point that Nathan has raised a couple of times that I feel needs to be questioned.....

I know plenty of people with pre-75 racers who won't race them (or race them very sparingly) simply because its too hard to find parts.

This is a total Furphy. I've been around vintage motocross for 24 years and have built a large and varied number of bikes. During that time I've hardly had any problem finding parts. My 350 Maico is extremely rare, only 100 or so made and I've never been at a loss for parts for her. With the exception of Elsinore transmission parts and TM125 ignition covers, I can't think of many parts that aren't readily available for most bikes. I'm certain that some forum members will bring up some parts that can't be found but with the internet becoming the worlds biggest bike shop, you'd be pretty unlucky if you couldn't eventually find what you're looking for. I'll give you a couple of examples.
*I'm about to undertake a rebuild on a comparitively rare Kawasaki F81m engine. These bikes were released in 1971 in extremely limited numbers to the point that today, they are amongst the more desirable and rare Japanese MXers. Before I receive the engine I did a 'worst case scenario' hypothetical rebuild, checking around looking for parts needed if the engine was bad enough to warrant a total rebuild. What I found was that I could source every single engine part needed for the rebuild, including a NOS ignition cover.
*Alan Jones destroyed a clutch and clutch drive on Black Betty at the recent Nepean Pre '75 meeting. It doesn't take a nuclear phycisist to understand that 1957 Jawa unit construction scambler engines are beyond rare. There are only three in Australia to our knowledge and Alan owns two of them. Anyway, he found the NOS parts needed after two or three emails.
*I did a full nuts and bolts concourse restoration on a '68 DT1 for Yamaha Australia and with the exception of a correct pattern rear tyre (Which Doc eventually found for me, thanks mate), a rust free seat base and correct white rubber grommets for the wiring (which I've since found) had no problem finding every part needed.
Name any bike you choose and I reckon you would eventually find the parts needed to restore and/or modify that bike. Pre '75 does indeed need some surgery to bring it back as a force in our movement but to scare potential pre '75 entrants off by offering up the old "you can't get parts" chestnut is both wrong and misleading.

I apologise for this being a tad off the subject but Nathan raised the point as a part of the debate so felt that this thread was the only place to make my reply.

[worms]

hang in there Shane,

 but you would think folks can see no one has implied pre 90 is vintage or ever will be, but what is all the drama about having support classes to ensure club viability .

At no time has the QVMX said we are going to make pre 90 ,VINTAGE MX, so what are we debating.

Hang on, the sun is falling again,

hey its Indy weekend, i'm off to watch

Cheers Trev

[YSS]

Firko another thing that may need to be added is , that those older  parts  where simple of construction and easyly  reproduced if needed.

[Phil]

offering up the old "you can't get parts" chestnut is both wrong and misleading.

This is one of my pet hates. One of the joys of restoring old bikes is the hunt for old parts. With Ebay and the ever growing number of aftermarket and NOS parts suppliers turning up, you can find just about everything. I found all the parts to rebuild my Honco for the Moto100 class in Thailand of all places. Sure some parts are getting scarce but if you hang in there long enough and dont get discouraged, it will eventually show up.