QVMX go Pre '90

[DJRacing]

all good points except the self interest one,

all things considered, all clubs have to consider how to maintain viability and what suites them.

 Since when, would anyone consider a pre 90 bike as vinatge, the debate isnt about renaming these bikes as vintage and SHOULD NEVER BE, it has been put forward as a Demo class, not rewriting the Holy Grail of VMX.

How many events have a support class?, all it is helping to do is cover costs and thus keeping costs down to min for their memmbers. no differant from a modern club offering a vintage class to help fill the gates  

so you have all gone off track with what really HAS been put forward,

IT WAS NOT PUT FORWARD TO RENAME PRE 90 BIKES AS VINTAGE. or ever class them this way.

My God , i ve just been told the sun hasnt come up today and we are all going to fall in this big hole , support class, who would ever think this one up, what were they thinking

cheers Trev

Hi Trev,
  First, good luck with the clubs proposal for pre90 if thats what it will take to keep the club running financally. But surely there are other avenues to persue or discuss to bring revenue into the club before introducing a more modern class? But havn't you even said in this thread that you would doubt that many would show up? With this being the case, wouldnt it cost the club more money to run a Pre90 class per head than say the MOTO-100 Class? Instead of a "demo Pre 90 class" I would much prefer to see a one off "Recreational Class" during a VMX meeting with no racing but more in the movement of 'Classic Dirt' free riding. A 30min stint half way through the day at a reasonable cost to the punter to be charged and maybe it would entice more members to either re-join/join as I do feel it is to early for a pre90 class to be involved in a vmx meeting.


   I can list the reasons for my opinion even though they are irrational, hollow, baseless rantings and with emotion form a scared, head in the sand, vintage rider.
    Pre90 bikes, as have been discuss earlier, are leaps and bounds better than the older bikes, as my friend Nathan has pointed out(which is fair enough) therefore the racing will be harder and faster, the jumps bigger and more spectacular, but with this comes bigger and more serious accidents. I know accidents happen (and freak ones at that, sorry organisers of the Conondale) but we all know how long it takes to resolve a serious accident.
   The Linkage bikes rip up a track in allot more and in a  different way to an older bike, therefore isnt the cost of track maintance going to increase? The one class of pre85 racing has showed that and now if pre90 racing is included wont it only make it harder for the older bikes/riders to preform on a rougher/tougher track?
   In keeping with the theme of vintage motocross "same old bikes, same old dirt, same old fun" aren't the more older bikes going to struggle to keep pace(in perpetual terms) thus actually causing the demise of aircooled/twinshock racing? By holding back with the introduction of future/newer classes members will be more willing to ride the older bikes, (Nathan is a prime example of this, and I take my hat off to you Nathan) even though our opinions' may differ on the subject.
  
    As both Nathan and Magoo have agreed that a pre90 class would be benefical to our sport by increasing numbers and have both agreed that the older bikes will become extinct in the future, but have stated that there was less bikes sold through the years after 1981 onwards. At what point does this become benefical to our sport?
  
I have always thought vmx was about the bikes, but I read that there is a "target market" for riders, which must mean as we get older our dollars aren't as good as the younger set. In years to come, will a 16yr old on his '08 bike be racing at a vmx meeting in 2025 and discussing how he changed his carb/pipe/ports etc.  Do they do that now?

STW, I dont own a pre75 bike, so it pissing off would be a bit pointless. My remarks werent surpose to be negative and I'm sorry you took them that way. I don't dislike any bikes as I have said earlier and I am only just trying to have a say on this subject as well. I thought you that you liked the Moto-100 and I was argreeing with you as I have even said in this posting. For what it is worth, Yes, I also sponsor VMX but not through a business. Although I don't live in Australia, this subject is very important across the board and if it come to fruitition I wont be leaving, but working hard so that the class can be the best it can be.

Trev, I have a tall ladder, can I help hold the sky up .

Oldschool,
I enjoyed the read;
By introducing this as a demo class is the foot in the door to the class becoming ratified. "Little seeds grow into big trees" and what starts in QVMX and VIPER will eventually become the accepted senior class. What the anti pre 90 group are afraid of is that the upper limit is moving forward too fast and that pre 90 is coming in before pre '85 has a chance to blossom, let alone grow. It's been a good debate, with no name calling or temper tantrums. I am personally against the pre 90 class on a number of levels but also understand the clubs reasons for introducing it. What I think is more important is the preservation of the traditional classes such as pre '75 and pre '65. These classes are the foundation of our sport and they need to be maintained at all cost. There are a lot of good young brains out there in the VMX community that should be working towards keeping our sports original concept in good health rather than looking for new classes. The West Aussies have shown that the traditional vintage classes can not only survive but can grow.
To me that is far more important than debating pre 90.
  

[VMX247]

. In years to come, will a 16yr old on his '08 bike be racing at a vmx meeting in 2025 and discussing how he changed his carb/pipe/ports etc.  Do they do that now?
YES THEY DO BUT ONLY A HAND FULL, I THINK ITS ENOUGH TO KEEP IT GOING FOR A FEW YEARS.
 DJ 2025 will be interesting to see,I'm defensively going to be around      

[firko]

By introducing this as a demo class is the foot in the door to the class becoming ratified. "Little seeds grow into big trees" and what starts in QVMX and VIPER will eventually become the accepted senior class. What the anti pre 90 group are afraid of is that the upper limit is moving forward too fast and that pre 90 is coming in before pre '85 has a chance to blossom, let alone grow. It's been a good debate, with no name calling or temper tantrums. I am personally against the pre 90 class on a number of levels but also understand the clubs reasons for introducing it. What I think is more important is the preservation of the traditional classes such as pre '75 and pre '65. These classes are the foundation of our sport and they need to be maintained at all cost. There are a lot of good young brains out there in the VMX community that should be working towards keeping our sports original concept in good health rather than looking for new classes. The West Aussies have shown that the traditional vintage classes can not only survive but can grow.
To me that is far more important than debating pre 90.

                                                                                 Halelujah!!!!!

[090]

So as a 41 year old who rode a cr500 '85 up to an '87 250, when do i get to relive my glory days??
If it was up to the nay sayers it would be in 5 years to never. Vintage started in 89? So that was what 15 years from a 74 model bike?
Its been 23 years since i rode my 85 glory day bike and its close enough to 20 years since an 89 model was new. These are 20 year old shit boxes that are been brought back to life and into the fold. I think a big picture mentality rather than a self centered one is in order.
Vintage mx can still progress.
 BMCC should stay with an evo cut off and QVMX should take the step it has and maybe cater for the later bikes.
To get a better roll up to BMCC, maybe there should be more free riding and not as much racing.
After all, its not the introduction of 20 year old 'moderns' that are affecting the pre 75 numbers, its the fact that guys aren't riding them and new blood would rather a later model that THEY relate to.
Also, just because they were short travel and somewhat primitive, doesn't mean that they are the only vintage bikes.
Pre 90 is not a dirty word!
On a side note, i don't feel that moto 100 can be put in front of any serious motocross steed as a class.

[Wombat]

Eight pages and counting!
Here's an intermission girlie, this time incorporating some old forum themes:
Motorsport girls, Suzuki footpegs and 'moderns' sneaking into VMX... and the colour orange for the KTM and Can-Am tragics!

[shorelinemc]

Gentleman will it be rapiers or pistols at dawn ? trev what where you doing at indie? gatton was on!!

[LWC82PE]

I think this comes down to the fact that in one persons eyes a ‘vintage’ bike is for example a 1970 bike and they don’t feel comfortable with others seeing a 1980-89 bike as ‘vintage’ some people regard anything 1970’s up wards to be modern and only bikes from the 30’s 40’s 50’s 60’s to be vintage. Who is wrong?? Who is right???

I am in favour of pre 90. For me its up to models 1989 (not including the actual 1990 models) and then that’s it no more ‘vintage’ classes. When the day comes when 1990's model bikes become older and people start to see them as ‘vintage’ some one can start a whole new generation of racing for those period bikes as they clearly do not belong with anything older than 1990 for example a (1990-95 class and a 96-00 class) and they can have their own whole association/club/tracks/internet forum/rules etc etc and be totally different and have nothing to do what so ever with ‘us’ who are into the the 60's 70's and 80's bikes. So up until then the people with 1990 bikes onwards can struggle to compete with the bikes from the 2000’s until they can be considered old enough to start a class specific for them but not be linked or added onto any of the pre 90 events. But how much more can dirt bikes be developed??? There may not be too many more major advancements it technology to create a big gap between the 1990’s bikes and current day bikes to warrant people wanting to start something for those bikes

I think it is unreasonable to expect a 1985-1989 bike to compete with bikes mid 90’s and newer and this era of bike should not be forgotten and should have a class to compete in.

So in summary I think pre 90 is a good idea and I welcome it although my main passion is pre 85 bikes, and im sure this will bring a whole heap of 85-89 bikes out of the sheds and being put to use and give them a class to compete in.

[Maico31]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. QVMX club is strong enough to add a pre 90 class without affecting numbers in the earlier classes. Most of the guys i know who would ride pre 90 already have evo or pre 85 bikes and don't ride pre 75 anyway. As Brad said most people coming to VMX want to ride what they did in their heyday and there aren't many 55 year olds taking up vintage racing. The only problem is fitting it all into 1 day, obviously some of the classes will have to be combined.

[shortshifter]

Damn shorelinemc got in before me ,I was thinking exactly the same thing.I'll have to think of another analogy.This thread has been a good read and I think its good for us that we can express our views on this forum.Firko leading the Heavy Brigade of VMX stalwarts and Emperor Nathan trying to convince him to come over to the Pre-90 darkside.If IT is to be pistols at dawn,Gentlemen choose your seconds!

[DJRacing]

Damn shorelinemc got in before me ,I was thinking exactly the same thing.I'll have to think of another analogy.This thread has been a good read and I think its good for us that we can express our views on this forum.Firko leading the Heavy Brigade of VMX stalwarts and Emperor Nathan trying to convince him to come over to the Pre-90 darkside.If IT is to be pistols at dawn,Gentlemen choose your seconds!

     Nathan, will you be my second??       I'm busy that day

[evo550]

I'm not sure what headline has caused the largest amount of distress for some people "Global Economic crisis" or "QVMX to go pre '90"

I tried to do a long winded reply, but timed out both times, needless to say QVMX has been through alot of changes through the years from the introduction of the evo and pre '78 classes, reducing the membership age from 30 to 16 and more recently the introduction of the pre '85 class, each and every time the vocal minority screamed blue murder..."Track destruction"...."Loss of other classes"....."Loss of ride time"......"Doof Doof vans in the pits"....ect ect, and each time a change was implimented, instead of imploding as forcast the club grew.

Pre'90 will do nothing other than reinforce a top club, Bert cavell will still have a chat to a hyperactive pre '85 125 rider about the dust in the first turn, sure as shit that guy on the xl175 will still bust his arse every lap to get to the top of the hill at Rocksberg and everyone will go home tired and smiling as they close the gate behind them.

What goes on in other states suits them not us, so the comparison is pointless.

The tracks won't turn into 60 ft tabletops and triples over night, track design will always have a pre '60 bike in mind first and foremost.....and the pre '90 rider will know that.

And for the first time, holeshot buddy will have no eligibility problems at scrutineering as that mullet is a '89 model and is finally legal

Peace!!

[magoo]

Evo, you nailed it absolutely perfectly, especially Holeshots hairstyle. On thet note, we haven't heard Bumhole Buddy and his Squirtmoto mate chime in to this debate. Where the hell are you boys?

P.S. Now this is what I'd call "The Great Debate", the pollies have got nothing on us.

[mboddy]

There may not be too many more major advancements it technology to create a big gap between the 1990’s bikes and current day bikes to warrant people wanting to start something for those bikes

In the future everything will be electric.
Anything with an internal combustion engine will be Historic.
We will be brewing our own fuel in our back yard so that we can race them.

[firko]

In the future everything will be electric.
Anything with an internal combustion engine will be Historic.
We will be brewing our own fuel in our back yard so that we can race them.

Thankfully I'll be pushing up daiseys in the Shady Acres cemetry by then.

[Dan-166]

There has been a lot of good and bad points point forward from both sides of the arguments. Being relatively new to VMX, I would only offer this opinion;
I think we are all loosing site of why we are in the sport! IT'S ALL JUST ABOUT RIDING BIKES AND HAVING FUN, NO MATTER WHAT THE BIKE IS  OR WHAT YEAR IT WAS MADE, WE DO IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE LOVE TO DO. GET ON OUR BIKES AND RIDE THEM OR SIMPLY WORK ON THEM IN THE SHED, SIT AROUND WITH OUR MATES, DRINK BEER AND BENCH RACE!
Let's not loose site of the simplicity of being a motorcycle enthusiast!