Author Topic: what did I stuff up here?  (Read 20913 times)

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Offline frostype400

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what did I stuff up here?
« on: July 31, 2017, 10:14:28 pm »
Well taking a look at my pe400 after it decided to stop on the weekend I thought my flywheel may have slipped as it had before but no it has lost nearly all compression big time so I pulled the top end down.

so straight away noticed scoring front and rear of cylinder and I didn't take a picture but it looks like the piston ring locating pin is gone so I am assuming that's what has caused the scoring with the ring then having to much end gap?

looking for thoughts will the cylinder need rebore or be ok running the same size piston and what should I look for to make sure it doesn't happen again, thanks Michael.



1971 tm400 and PE's

Offline TT5 Matt

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 01:19:01 am »
Looks like its seized,something big pe's like to do!can you put some pics of the piston as well

Offline YZB 500

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 04:38:36 am »
After reading your "What did i stuff up here" story

its questionable that the ring pin has gone, if it was not present at all the ring would have rotated on the piston and the ring would catch in one of the ports & major damage occurs ! prior to seizing like this.

or the ring may of claimed over the ring pin as the ring  & bore would have to be very very worn.

Appears to more like a heat issue, whats the top of the piston crown look like?

Was the bike pinging, its a death rattle under high load.

Did it blow at high ground speed ?

Is the carby clean, no blocked jets? is there water in the fuel bowl, main jets may not pass water, surface tension is the issue!

Was the bike running a high idle speed after a run / coming to a dead stop, then returning to slow idle after a short period or even stalling, this is likely a crank seal & or air leak at base gasket or intake manifold.

Not that this bike was likely blowning massive smoke ( bore looks very dry & lack on carbon deposits ), but if it was the primary drive side crank seal leaking, drawing trans oil and burning it, which once the seal runs dry, it also sucks air ( lean) what the trans oil comsumption like?

Husky mag motors do this ask "Tossa" mag crank case bikes that have had water sitting in them at some stage equals shitty cases. 

If the piston crown is damage in the centre like a hole is forming, its likely the heat range of the plug to hot and lean mixture.
 
Comp bikes "NO" 7 or 8 NGK hot range plugs , 9s in air cooled bikes & 10s in water cooled, if it needs a 8 or less to run dry its to rich, like wise other brands near coldest plug or coldest only.

If the piston crown has alloy splatter over its detination, poor timing.

If the piston crown is blown away at the front / exhaust port  its pilot jet is to small, the bike also would of been pushing your though the corner like its lean. but probably returned to idle well prior to failure.

If the intake skirt of the piston has seize marks its lack of oil. wrong oil ratio !

If both sides of skirts of the piston have seize marks it could have cold seized ( not warning up the bike and thrashing it from stone cold )

Rings end gap that is to close ( fresh rebored motors ), also cause engine seizures, more so at the exhaust brigde in the cylinder & piston in that area. not that this is a bridge port motor.

Was the bike kicking back though the kick starter, if so its to far advanced timing. also leans out the bike and run hot.

Bikes that are hard to start may have low float level, this also leans out the pilot circuit, guys that have leaking float needle valves that bend the float tab are also making they bike hard to start.  low fuel level equals lean pilot jet.

Just a few things i have seen, found or experienced on my own bikes and clients over the years.

I have found as main jets and jetting goes, engine temp drops as the jet is close to been correct, wrong jet high temp. as the engine gets close to the correct jet the engine cyl head temp drops, if it begins to rise again its getting the wrong way, either rich or lean!

Capacity has also an effect on air cooled cylinder head temp, small 125cc around 85-95 deg, 250cc 120-140 deg, 500cc very hot, close to 190 deg, on this bike its one jet size out and blows passed 205 deg, should be running methanol, all temp measured three laps at Narrogin.

Regards Gibbsy



















« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 04:46:12 am by YZB 500 »
Old school is cool !

Offline frostype400

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 08:33:48 am »
Thanks guys I will get some pics of the piston as well and it happened at fairly high speed over shot Where I was supposed to turn and then it died when I was going back through the gears.
1971 tm400 and PE's

Offline TT5 Matt

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 08:45:50 am »
What oil/fuel ratio are you using and the type of oil?

Offline frostype400

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 09:39:29 am »
32:1 Penrite oil.
1971 tm400 and PE's

Offline Glen08

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 10:47:19 am »
Damn..you mentioned flywheel spinning...was that thought from an aftermarket ignition..?
That pricked my ears because I have fresh 81-400 motor & about to purchase a dynamo 12v..
Hope you find the issue  :)

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 11:42:18 am »
were you at harrow? the ground there is very boggy and puts enourmous loads on a/c bikes. too lean at all in any circuit will become critical on those boggy steep uphills, real seizure territory.

Offline frostype400

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 12:24:07 pm »
Yeah I was at harrow I was on a road when it happened but flywheel hadn't moved yes it was a powerdynamo one 12v I'm going to take it off and lap the crankshaft and flywheel with valve grind paste I had a mate put the flywheel on after it span but not sure if he did that so I will do it as precaution any way.

I was way to rich early on and couldn't rev out played with the carb and got it to rev out I might go back to 20:1 though as that's what they ran stock
1971 tm400 and PE's

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 12:51:38 pm »
i rekon 30 - 40 to 1 is fine, oils are pretty good, i suspect timing / jetting has been your problem. as an example although my 400 is water cooled, i jetted it in 2011, got it just nice and havent touched it once. if your still playing at harrow you will have trouble as the country is hard on jetting and timing errors. also with the A/c bikes, the mud increases your engine temps considerably and you could also have an air leak. harrow will find that for you. as you probably noticed, its like riding with the rear brake stuck half on.

clean it up, new slug (if the bore is ok..) and run it in well at 20:1 then drop the mix out a bit and work on jetting it so its crisp and nice through the range. with an a/c i would make the needle jet slightly rich if possible just so its spluttering a bit at even throttle but not dragging the bike as you open up.

good luck


Offline Lozza

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 01:42:43 pm »
Its just got very hot, more oil (castor/synthetic) will fix that.
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline matcho mick

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 01:49:29 pm »
hi speed,overshot,bang down thru the box,shutting the throttle,big bore motor = no cooling coming in,look at the bore,classic thrust fore /aft seizure,like 80-85 says richen n/j, :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline Glen08

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 01:51:06 pm »
My brother inlaw pe400,  also fresh motor 0.50 over boyesen reeds,  175 ignition,  fouling plugs on penrite full synthetic..I'm running silkolene full synthetic 30:1 no issues at all...we did the builds together. Food for thought.
I usually lap a flywheel in twice,,again after a good run..
Ps,  I just paid for a dynamo.

Offline frostype400

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 03:57:38 pm »
I'll get a photo of the piston in a sec just heading up the shed will I be ok to just replace with new piston and rings same size?
1971 tm400 and PE's

Offline frostype400

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Re: what did I stuff up here?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2017, 04:48:42 pm »
I was wrong ring locater is still intact so possibly may only need a new ring?



1971 tm400 and PE's