NOT VMX - Toyota Kluger - any mechanics out there?

[Mick D]

I hate weighing in on these cyber diagnostics.
Never looked under the bonnet of a Kluger, but the principles of this problem are all the same.
Is it petrol or diesel, cause this is important. Turbo? or not? The only 2009 Klugers I can find on Gumtree are Petrol?
So let's go with petrol n/aspirated first.

Ok, It is intermittent, but clears quickly when it does happen.

It will most likely be a relative small amount of oil being drawn into combustion by intake suction.
Most likely via the the Positive Crankcase Ventilator valve from time to time, just prior to the occurrence of smoke.

These valves are cheap, though I doubt replacing the valve will fix the problem.
There will be a baffle plate installed in the Valve cover(head cover) just under the connection point, Head/valve cover is what we used to call the tappet or rocker cover.
This baffle is there to stop oil from going into the ventilator valve and therefore engine intake.

There will most likely be a buildup of sludge in that 'Baffle". This prevents the oil from draining back and inevitably an amount then gets sucket through to the intake instead.

Oils ain't oils, some built sludge much more quickly than others.

There is a quick test for this. Do you have an oil catch can or can you make one and put it in line. PCV line. If the intermittent burst of smoke stops then obviously this is the source of your woes.

Yeap, my money is sludge in the PCV baffle. Which means your whole engine will have evidence of sludge throughout.
So have a look down inside your oil filler cap. See any sludge? If you don't have an endoscopy?
Hot glue a little piece of mirror on a stick and grab your torch. 

 

[Hoony]

thanks guys appreciate all help here. looking to be informed so i can make an informed choice of mechanic

[Lozza]

Stop tipping your old premix in the tank Hoony 

[Mick D]

Do this first!

Yeap, my money is sludge in the PCV baffle. Which means your whole engine will have evidence of sludge throughout.
So have a look down inside your oil filler cap. See any sludge? If you don't have an endoscopy?
Hot glue a little piece of mirror on a stick and grab your torch.   

Internal sludge build up also perfectly explains this

:- After prolonged freeway driving (100kmh) and then pulling onto an off ramp to a standstill, and then mild acceleration a large plume is seen which then clears very quickly.

Modern engines, for the sake of economy cut all injection as throttle is backed of. So at closed throttle body/deceleration  there is no bang, no fire happening. (nothing gets burnt, but drawn in scavenged oil tends to collect in the absence of combustion).
The off ramp still holds revs up for extended period and oil is still being pumped in great amounts to quad cams and HLAs. The return path to the sump for all that oil is greatly restricted because of Sludge formation throughout your engine. During this off ramp run the the throttle body valve closed, but the revs still up and oil is still being delivered proportional to RPM. Inlet/combustion chamber suction is through the roof because T/body valve is closed. The moment you light it back up at the end of the off ramp,,,,wahlah,,,now appears the evidence of the oil that has collected around your valves and PCV instead of return draining.

I have for example witnessed/pulled down high milage petrol V6 engines that have minimal sludge/milage.
They have had more frequent 5K oil changes with higher quality oils than some I have pulled down with
low milage but are full of sludge.
Those lower milage full of sludge engines have only had oil changed every 10K with cheap crap selected to increase the profit margins of the that mechanic.   

Some mechanics will tell you "she's shot mate" "valve stem seals, rings, whole engine mate".
Sludge formation. ? ? I think.

[Mick D]

Toyota quad cam? 150k, services at 5k intervals with full synthetic= long life, minimal sludge.

Toyota quad cam 150k, services at 10K intervals with less than optimal lube=premature sludge formation.

[Hoony]

many many thanks Mick, really appreciate this. off to see a mechanic soon.

[evo550]

Stop tipping your old premix in the tank Hoony 

Funny you mentioned that Lozza, had a Kluger from new used to empty what was left of pre mix into the tank every Monday, back then used to use R30 castor oil. Kluger went in for 1st service (15000klm) told the dealer I've noticed a bit of a knock in the engine under load (bit like a deisel) One thing lead to another after a week I get a call, they had replaced the motor. Extensive build up of carbon on piston tops, injectors fcuked and orange sludge covering all the internals.......that's R30 for you.

[Lozza]

Stop tipping your old premix in the tank Hoony 

Funny you mentioned that Lozza, had a Kluger from new used to empty what was left of pre mix into the tank every Monday, back then used to use R30 castor oil. Kluger went in for 1st service (15000klm) told the dealer I've noticed a bit of a knock in the engine under load (bit like a deisel) One thing lead to another after a week I get a call, they had replaced the motor. Extensive build up of carbon on piston tops, injectors fcuked and orange sludge covering all the internals.......that's R30 for you.

No doubts you informed the dealer about the premix  Once I put about 2 litres of premix to get to the servo my Falcon did not like it one little bit coughed and farted all the way there.

[80-85 husky]

the old 307 likes the castor 727, smells good!

[Mick D]

the old 307 likes the castor 727, smells good!

A Munroe who can drink oil, and then she can fart perfume,,,,hard to beat

[Mick D]

Think I have bad news for you Hoony,,,,,,
Tried to speak with a few old friends/acquaintances this morning,,,,spoke to one very clever current mechanic anyhow.

He agrees too, that the signs you are getting are the first signs of internal sludge formation.
Although he doesn't service any Klugers, He says he has heard of them starting to drop like flies from sludge overload and here is the terrible bit,,,
  Apparently Toyota not only know about it!! he reckons it is the subject of a class action against Toyota in the US!! by wait for it,,, by KLUGER OWNERS

I respect this fellow too. not one of your average BS guys.

I can explain why the occasional burst of blue and then clears on cold start ups too.
I will attempt that latter.

[Mick D]

Internal sludge formation completely destroys engines.

It acts as an insulator as it coats internal surfaces, thereby inhibiting transfer of heat from the oil itself.
The hotter oil becomes the more sludge it then produces.

There is a lot of oil pumped up top to feed 4 x camshafts and 24V,,means 24 Hydraulic Lash Adjusters to feed also.

The oil pump starts to struggle. Not only is it at risk of cavitation because its intake strainer is also becoming
clogged with Sludge. The helpful "Head" that it would normally have is trapped up top as sludge coated paths slow and restricts its return.
The outer wall surfaces of the sump, bathed in cooler atmosphere are integral to help transfer heat out of the oil.
No good when the level drops because it is being held up top in a place where all the heat is made.

Internal sludge formation supports a vicious cycle that precedes death.

[80-85 husky]

fill her up with a mix of .25 deisol and .75 atf for a flushing mix. (you can actually buy flushing oil I think?) ive seen old oily red holdens given this treatment but im not sure if a more modern engine would cope.

[Mick D]

When will we learn
      "If in doubt Google will help you out"

Wow,,ok ok, I have linked this PIC to the web page so CLICK ON THIS PIC FOR THE FULL STORY


I find no joy in being the bearer of bad news Hoony, but at least you know what you are dealing with now.
Good luck mate.

[Hoony]

thanks Mick i just read that acticle after reading your post about class action. i did same google search. yep still old scholl as i don't think google 1st up i tend to ask someone in the know.

not good news and my brain now hurts