Author Topic: Rebuilding a YZ80E  (Read 7949 times)

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Offline ShingoDingo

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Rebuilding a YZ80E
« on: January 12, 2017, 09:41:02 am »
 I need some help guys,

 I'm currently in the process of restoring a 1978 YZ 80 (E I think?). But I've got a bit of a mismatch of parts. I've only worked with modern bikes up until this point and never really dabbled too deep into an engine. Now I've been thrown head first into it all with this project. It seems as if I've got a YZ 80 C bottom end and a YZ80 E top end. I'm really not sure how this is going to work, but I've almost got a complete engine and I'm not 100% fussed if I end up with a mild 'Frankenbike'  because this is more about learning than getting a bike worth of the title 'Fully Restored'. Any advice at all would be much appreciated, and if I can get help sourcing parts that would be fantastic! I'm probably going to have to rebuild the engine for sure, it's been pulled apart (top end and bottom end separated, although I was told it was one motor running at one stage) so there's slight rust in places like the crank. But everything seems to move really smoothly (I've only moved it by hand a few rotations just to establish if it was cactus or not). So yeah, otherwise I have a most complete rolling frame and hope to have my first running vintage motocross bike relatively soon

Any help would be much appreciated, as I said, this is more a learning tool over anything else, as I've only been messing with bikes for a few years

ShingoDingo

Offline rocketfrog

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 04:38:10 pm »
A 1978 YZ80 is most certainly a YZ80E. The first YZ80 to feature a monoshock rear end. The frame and engine numbers should start with 2J5 for a 1978 YZ80.

Although there is good compatability between 1978 to 1980 YZ and GT80 engines, the 1979 YZ80F is probably the closest relative albeit with a 6 speed gearbox rather than the 5 speed. Cylinder, crank clutch and engine cases are basically the same and if they do not have the identical part number, I can tell you that they will still interchange with no drama.

Breaking the engine down is a simple affair, be methodical and take lots of pics to aide re-assembley. I have 2 spare engines here for parts if you find your in need of replacements or need pics of what goes where.

I would be tipping that the gearbox is going to be OK, I have pulled 3 crusty old engines apart and have found all of the gear boxes to be good, so not much seems to go wrong there.

The clutch outer basket is usually grooved in the thrust side of the fingers and would be possible to bring back with a careful dressing with the file. The clutch actuator mechanism usually suffers some wear and tear and would benefit from a good clean and regrease if nothing else, but you can probably count on buying a new plastic helix.

The left side magneto cover/ sprocket cover (intermediate casing) usually cops a beating from the chain flying off and thrashing the case. The case also servs as part of the clutch actuator housing, so there can be dramas getting a good case if yours is trashed.

The crank Big End and Main engine bearings are usually in need of replacing on these engines. Main bearings are cheap and easy to replace and probably should be done as a matter of course. Do the seals as well - goes without saying.

The big end should be inspected and replaced as an on condition basis. This job is best left to the machine shop if you have not got the proper gear to do the job. Parts are available individually or as a kit genuine from Yamaha (I bought a complete NOS crank assy from Ebay for $100 recently so keep an eye out for that sort of deal).

Source your part numbers from a site such as Partzilla in the USA, this will also aide in determining which parts are common to different models and will be very useful to see what parts might be missing or incorrect.

Airboxes are tough to find for these bikes for some reason, but any airbox from 1978 yz80 to 1980 YZ80 will fit and are identical despite the part number change. You are lucky if you have a good airbox.

DC Plastics make decent fitting side covers for the YZ80E. No one makes seat foams for them yet, but will by about March 17. Covers are available from Ebay. Spokes are available NOS pretty cheap and the front 16 inch rim is readily replaced with a 17 inch from a later model as the front hub is the same unit used on all drum brake YZ80s since the dawn of time, Back wheel is the same up to 1979.

Frames are weak on the 1978 YZ80 and a a factory gusset kit was available to weld in as a mod, the frame was redesigned for 1979 and is a big improvement straight up.

Throttle control cables are hard to find and there is not an aftermarket, fit a 1982 or later YZ80 throttle assembley and cable for a worth while upgrade (you will need to buy a separate kill switch as the original has the kill switch incorporated into the right side grip assy).

The rest of the controls are straight forward and easy to get from Yamaha or Ebay for chump change.

If your forks are not rusty then you are one of the few that does not have to re chrome or otherwise up grade to later model forks - not much advice for that problem, either option is not cheap.

Do yourself a favour and dont spend too much time trying to save the carby if the chrome on the slide is worn through to brass anywhere, grab a Chinese copy for $30 delivered and put your own jets and throttle cable mount in to suit.

I think that about covers it, good luck. The YZ 80E is a cool little bike.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:42:23 pm by rocketfrog »
Political correctness is a doctrine,fostered by journalists and politicians, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Offline ShingoDingo

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Update on the engine situation
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 06:27:15 pm »
Okay so it SEEMS to be that I have a 1978 Cylinder (I'm pretty sure the intake boot as posed to simply bolting on a carburetor is an indicator of this), A 1977 head (1T0 printed into it) and a 1976 Bottom end

My question is, is it even possible to assemble these 3 parts into a single engine that won't explode or otherwise tear itself apart when I eventually start it. I will likely be sourcing a carb from eBay and messing with that because the carb I currently have is in quite rough shape and isn't even complete.

The bore will need some work as it's rusty and just in bad looking shape. Would it be worth sending the whole engine off to TSP and getting them to handle it? I've had good experiences with them on my 01 RM125, but that isn't a vintage bike. Does anyone know if they know their way around vintage engines. That is, if you have to treat them any differently to a modern engine (I'm making an assumption that there must be a few things)

Sorry that I seem to know nothing about this, like I said, I've only been messing with bikes for about two years, and I've never messed with vintage bikes before (Unless you count that TF100 that was my first project)

Thanks rocketfrog for all the pointers, it's been a massive help and will likely help my build along greatly. Luckily I've got two left side covers, one in really good nick and the other...well, it's fair to say it's coped a serious beating

Offline ShingoDingo

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Another update (Images of what I've got)
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 06:58:21 pm »
And here's some images of the situation. Rather grim wouldn't you say?






Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 07:53:09 pm »
while your local shop maybe ofay with newer bikes, just check they are happy to look at the 80. otherwise someone here will suggest a good spannerman / shop to sort your bottom end. where are you located? I cant see the yz being a "trick" engine needing specialist work or expert knowledge.

Offline ShingoDingo

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 02:52:26 pm »
I'm located down Gippsland area in Victoria
The local bike shop isn't too keen on me from what I can tell, I worked for him at one point before I knew anything about bikes and got the boot pretty quickly.
How much would I be looking at to get this YZ running? I don't have much in the way of funds yntil i sell my project ZZR, but as much as my Dad insists, I don't want to cut any corners where possible
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 03:17:08 pm by ShingoDingo »

Offline rocketfrog

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 06:36:25 pm »
Hey Shingo, does the barrel have 1TO cast into the side of the reed housing? As far as I can tell you have a YZ80D 1977 engine and a YZ80E 1978 chassis. The Rubber intake to carby connector boot first came out on the 1977 YZ80 and it appears to be the engine you have there.

If it fits the frame OK then build it up as a YZ80D engine with parts you have as the most economical option. Parts for the YZ80D engine are easy to find and not too pricey either. Your engine is the last of the points type ignition and is a pretty basic type of engine. I think a good place to start is do a dummy build up to see what it all looks like fit wise. Probably no point trying to make the 77 engine fit into the 1978 frame as the result would likey involve welding and cutting etc. Not really recommended for the bloke starting out unless you have the gear and the skills. Paying someone that could do it for you will be expendsive.

As long as there is a bore or 2 left in the cylinder and the crank is good you will be able to rebuild that engine without great expense at all. It looks like the kick starter has been welded on so there is a bit of a problem when you get down to stripping the engine. Start hunting around for a replacement kicker shaft and lever to see what your up for, measure the bore and check that you have some life left in the cylinder.

These few things will start to give you an idea of what the project will cost to get it going - factor in new gaskets, a piston (rings, clips, bearing & gudgeon pin), main bearings and seals plus a clymer manual to help you along with service limits and specification data.

You should get a picture of what the cost of getting her going will be if you examine each section and make a list of what needs attention. Definitely get an owners manual or a Clymer service manual that covers the 77 78 YZ80's so that you have the chassis and engine covered in one manual would be my best advice for you.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 06:47:30 pm by rocketfrog »
Political correctness is a doctrine,fostered by journalists and politicians, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Offline ShingoDingo

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 11:16:35 am »
Okay, so i can confirm that it is a 1977 top end (both the head and cylinder have 1T0 marked on them) and I think a 1976 bottom end (It has 598 cast on it, and my searches are coming up as that being the '77 YZ80C)

I didn't even notice my kickstart was welded, I was so consumed in the stud bolts for the cylinder (One is missing and i have a feeling these aren't the right bolts anyway,  as the NOS parts on eBay look a lot shorter, same with in the parts diagrams on PartZilla)


I'll try fitting it into the frame today to see how it fits, I'm comfortable doing a little bit of fab work, but not massive amounts. I've been doing that sort of stuff in school (not on bikes, a 1/2 scale plane actually) for about 2 years now so im fairly comfortable and competent with a welder. Same goes without most cutting tools
I'll ask ask Dad if we have a set of vernier calipers to measure the bore

From my knowledge the bottom end seems okay, but is there anything I should be watching out for? I haven't done to much work on bottom ends. What are the signs the bearings are knackered and so forth?
I've googled it but nobody seems to know. Just little flame wars going on over what is right and what is wrong.

Lastly, is CMS a good place to source parts from? They ship to Australia (not cheaply though) and seem to have a much greater stock of parts than all the other sites I've found


Offline ShingoDingo

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 12:35:58 pm »
Put the engine in place and modification will be required. But nothing that seems out of my league. I will need advice on fixing the cracked upper rear mounting point though. Dad suggested just using metal putty and boring a hole through it. I have my doubts that this won't be strong enough though.

Below are some pictures of the engine sitting in place as best as I can fit it
The front lines up really well. But the back is rather problematic. Also, I'm assuming I'll need to get the electrical system from a '76 YZ80C because (And correct me if I'm wrong) the '76 is a points ignition, and the '78 is CDI. It'll be interesting, that's for sure.






P.S: If I'm doing images wrong, can someone please point it out? I have a suspicion I'm doing it wrong. I am hosting on an external site though, so that's right isn't it?
 

Offline ShingoDingo

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Bottom end is in!
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2017, 09:18:51 pm »
Howzat!



Got the bottom end just as the sun was going down. Bolted and fitting well (I think??). I didn't think I'd be able to fit the bottom end in using all 3 mounting points, but I got it working, just had to take the foot peg assembly off. I'll have to do something fancy when mounting the foot pegs again but I'll make it work. Just use a really long bolt maybe?

Now to get the engine running haha. I'm sure that the studs/bolts the previous owner used for the cylinder are completely wrong and will need to be replaced. Oh, and the engine is still running standard bore, so I should be able to get it rehoned without worry (Right?)

-Shingo Dingo out  8)

Offline evo550

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 10:10:12 pm »
Those cylinder nuts are a real PITA, If I remember correctly they hold cylinder and head on at the same time, Yamaha no longer have them and they aren't that compatable with other year YZ's or GT/MX engines. Sort of look like a spark plug spanner if memory serves.

Offline ShingoDingo

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 10:26:54 pm »
Yeah Evo, as far as I can tell (From looking at exploded diagrams) you've hit the nail on the head. They were only really used on the YZ80 and TY80 around 1976-79 and have been really hard to come buy. I've found a set of 4 on eBay and I'm trying to snaffle them away before anyone else buys them. About $30 for the set plus another $20 in shipping I think

Offline rocketfrog

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 09:10:35 am »
Those cylinder nuts are about $10 USD ea (EBAY) and they are around often enough. I have not got spares of those unfortunately, but keep an eye out for a used set, you can usually buy a miscelaneous assortment of OEM hardware from the states when they wreck a bike out. Sometimes you can grab a bargain like that, make sure you get the best value for money with shipping or that bike will cost you hundreds of dollars in shipping.

If you are just starting out, and you think you might use US Ebay a bit, consider a freight forwarding company such as MYUS. How they work is you can get all your orders sent to a USA address (you pay about $80 per year for the service) and get the the packages consolodated into one box when it is time to ship (usually I accrue bits and bobs over a month and then ship to Oz).

There are a few pitfalls for the bloke just starting out and we will try to help you avoid those as best we can. The biggest cost can often be the price you pay to get your bits shipped so make sure you exhaust all your resources in Aust first, maybe you will pay more on the face of things, but the true cost is learned when you do the conversion from USD to AUD and factor the shipping into the equation.

Try posting a list in the Wanted section and see if there is any one who might have surplus bits. Also give the wreckers a go, there are some good wreckers in Vic.

Great news about the Barrel, expect to pay around $80 to $100 for a bore and hone. Get your piston kit first and send the barrel and the piston to the machine shop together so that they can be measured to fit. The pistons from Yamaha step up in 0.25mm increments, but before you buy a +0.25mm piston, check that the cylinder is going to clean up at .25mm over first.

Clean any rusty crud out with wet and dry until the bore is smooth (dont worry too much about light pitting) then measure the bore properly paying attention to ovaling by measuring the front to rear dimension and the side to side dimension at about 3 places (top-centre and bottom) of the cylinder. Take the largest dimension (allowing a few thou for pitting scratching as necessary) and make your piston selection based on the next increment. Quite often you may have to go 2 increments to get the bore back to how it should be if it is rusty, scored or ovalled.

The good news is that pistons are easy to find and are cheap ( around $16-$20USD ) for that engine. A Wiseco kit will cost you about $100 Aussie, but the OEM pistons are best in my opinion.

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Offline evo550

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Re: Rebuilding a YZ80E
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 10:23:34 pm »
Yeah Evo, as far as I can tell (From looking at exploded diagrams) you've hit the nail on the head. They were only really used on the YZ80 and TY80 around 1976-79 and have been really hard to come buy. I've found a set of 4 on eBay and I'm trying to snaffle them away before anyone else buys them. About $30 for the set plus another $20 in shipping I think
It's been along time but...I think different models are different lengths and cause all sorts of grief trying to find the right ones.