One bike in Pre75/78

[HeavenVMX]

The club could reject the entry of the same bike in the two classes.

On what grounds?

Heaven has for many years had a club rule of 'one bike one ERA' otherwise it would be very difficult to run our meetings.

[Nathan S]

Indeed. HEAVEN has a published rule to that effect.

[Mick D]

Everyone has a budget limit,
Everyone has a limit to trailer space etc,
No one in VMX has a Semi and entourage, not in Aus anyhow.

 Its an attractive budget notion of having a bike that can be run in more than one class, for sure.
But, as Heaven has inferred there is a greater importance of fitting it all in on the limited time of a weekend.

Heaven VMX inc. is a great example of a state successfully catering for all VMX classes in the short space of a weekend.
Very competent.

As far as a "follow on" model though?
I believe there is no greater example of no change at all than the last of the 1974 LTR GP Maico's,
The ones with the pressed (with holes) upper forward rear shock mounts.
Picture is only an example to show upper rear shock mounts.


Indeed the only change in The MC motocross range was the chassis prefix from 394 to 395 on midnight 31/12/1974, regardless of 250/400/440(450) capacity, they were the prefixes and only changes in those capacities until the first FAILED wide frame(to accommodate the wider 5sp tranny), crapulent first internal fork spring, five speed, full of neutrals NG (new Generation) was introduced mid 75, the one we all assume is the 75 Maico, but in fact the mid year 1975 and a half.[/b ] was an an entirely new model as the model designation suggests.

The best example of an unchanged follow on model, there is Yoda.

[Mick D]

The failed 5sp New Generation model available mid 1975

[Mick D]

An advert from a April 1975 Magazine  Narrow Frame external fork spring 4speed


Note; the incorrect pic of the upper rear shock mounts that Maico used(I guess they were very busy at the time)

I do have a Mag/pic/advert somewhere with the correct mounts(4sp) displayed in May 1975,,,,,,,,
Somewhere    some one else can go look though

[Gippslander]

Pre-78 rules say manufactured 75, 76 & 77 and within suspension travel limits.  So a follow-on pre-75 bike is both pre-75 and pre-78 – no argument possible; anybody who says otherwise is twisting the rules to suit what they want

And just asking - do the Heaven rules of not being able to ride two classes mean that if I own a 77 Husky I can only ride in pre-78 or Evo but not both, and the mate who has 77 & 80 Huskies can ride in both classes?  That's discrimination against somebody who can only stump up $ for one bike because the 77 Husky clearly fits both pre-78 and Evo – again no argument possible - as the redhead QLD girl would say "please explain?"

[John Orchard]

Pre-78 rules say manufactured 75, 76 & 77 and within suspension travel limits.  So a follow-on pre-75 bike is both pre-75 and pre-78 – no argument possible; anybody who says otherwise is twisting the rules to suit what they want

And just asking - do the Heaven rules of not being able to ride two classes mean that if I own a 77 Husky I can only ride in pre-78 or Evo but not both, and the mate who has 77 & 80 Huskies can ride in both classes?  That's discrimination against somebody who can only stump up $ for one bike because the 77 Husky clearly fits both pre-78 and Evo – again no argument possible - as the redhead QLD girl would say "please explain?"

I'm with him  ^^^^^^

[Husky500evo]

If I could only afford one bike and I wanted to ride it in both pre '75 and pre '78 , where the club rules allowed it , then a Can Am TNT 250 would be the bike I would choose . Although they are regarded as not one of the best handling bikes around , they have an awesome motor that would give most big bores a hurry up .

[Nathan S]

HEAVEN runs three capacity classes for each era, plus an unlimited (all in) class.
So everyone gets at least two rides on each bike.
 
Plus most events have racing on Saturday (either trophy racing or the GP Series), so even the person who only has one bike can get plenty of ride & racing in.

It all works well, and complaints are very few and far between.

[bigk]

The discussion has gone a bit side ways, Momus was referring to riding his pre '75 bike in both pre'75 & pre '78 at the upcoming National titles & while everyone has an opinion there's been no definitive answer. What happens at club level is a totally different scenario as there is no obligation by clubs to abide by the MA rules for national title events for their own club events, which in my mind is confusing for riders. A bike legal for a National title may not be legal at some club events & bikes which span a couple of era's may not be deemed eligible in multiple era's, however that is totally up to individual clubs.
I've not seen pre'75 bikes in pre'78 classes at National events, so "assume" it's not kosher, (unwritten rules/law or whatever) & have no problem with that, but as has been argued, there seems to be no written reason why it is not ok. The pre '78 rules are clear in saying restricted to '75/'76/77 bikes but can a follow on 1975 model deemed legal for pre '75 (essentially named as a 1974 model) be deemed a pre '78 bike IF ridden in BOTH classes? I personally think not as has been the standard for the past history of the classic nats & to me the answer is clear, but then I don't care as I don't want to ride my pre'75 bike in pre'78. On the other hand, I would want to ride my pre'78 bike in evo, which I do in my club.
K

[bigk]

Unlike someone who races a 1975 Suzuki RM125S (pre '78 bike/no follow on rule), Momus has a choice in this case. He can choose to ride his bike as a pre '78 bike or he can use the follow on rule and deem it to be a pre '75 bike (essentially a 1974 model) under that clause in the MOMS. Once he makes that choice, he has a clear & concise answer. He in fact is the one who chooses what class he can ride his bike in. It seems simple to me.
K

[Nathan S]

Without checking the rules, I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the rule book to support the "one bike, one class" idea.

I have a vague recollection of one of the CMX Commissioners riding a Pre-78 bike in both Pre-78 and Evo, back before the Nationals were split. Could be wrong.

[Mick D]

The thread heading is Pre75/78
I haven't seen where Momus has made mention of the "Nationals" only "Meeting".
Nor have I seen what model bike Momus is referring to?

I guess one has to be "in the loop" to know whats between the lines
Nice if we were all psychic.

[Gippslander]

Whilst I don't agree with it if you want to ride Heaven then you follow their rules and if it works for them okay - but it begs the questions:

* Mate and I pool $ for a pre-75 "follow-on" bike and I race it pre-75 and the mate races it pre-78 – must be ok

and

* Mate and I pool $ for a 77 Husky (with "nutted" suspension) and I race it pre-78 and the mate races Evo (restricted Heaven version) – must be ok

Makes a joke of the rules when 2 people can do what one person can't, anyway them's the Heaven rules and if you don't want to play you do something else

[bigk]

Momus may not have mentioned the Nationals Mick D, but that is crystal clear to me, perhaps others. He also asked for an example of a precedent, from Queensland if possible. The precedent that has been set for a zillion years (Australia wide) is that a pre'75 bike cannot be ridden in the pre'78 class at a national title event. All Momus has to do is decide in which class he wants to ride his bike that is ok for pre'75 under the follow on rule, pre'75 OR pre'78. Can't have his cake & eat it to. If he chooses to ride the bike in pre'75 he can ride 2 classes, pre'75 capacity class & pre'75 age group class. If he chooses pre'78 he can ride 1 class, pre'78 capacity class. If he's not talking about the upcoming classic nats, this whole thread is moot, as individual clubs are under no obligation to abide by the MOMS for a national title event at their own clubs.