One bike in Pre75/78

[Momus]

What is to stop a recognised carry over model that spans 1974/75/76 being entered as a Pre 75 and a Pre 78  at the same meeting?

[bigk]

The MOMS. Pre '78 is restricted to 1975/1976/1977 & recognised 1978 carry over models. Love it or hate it, them's the rules.
K

[Nathan S]

Presumably any 75/76/77 model that is recognised as a Pre-75 legal carry-over would be legal for both classes, according to the rules.

[Momus]

Presumably any 75/76/77 model that is recognised as a Pre-75 legal carry-over would be legal for both classes, according to the rules.

They're my thoughts as well.   I'd like a precedent- be good if it was up QLD way...

[bigk]

I don't think a pre '75 bike is in for pre'78 though, which is what the rule makers wanted, an example of different era, which is what I think MOMUS is alluding to? It would be opening yet another "can of worms". A 1975 CR125M is legal for pre'75 as a carry over model in standard form (where it belongs) but if you ride it in that class, I think that put's it out for pre'78. A modified CR125M (laid down shocks) would be in pre'78 though. I stand to be corrected, it's a good question.
If it were ok, a lot of pre'75 bikes would be seen in the pre'78 class & that just doesn't happen.
K

[KTM47]

Yes it could be possible to use a follow on model from Pre 75, in my opinion, but would you want to change the suspension between races and the prefix on the number plate.

In my opinion every bike in the Pre 78 class should have a "Z" on the number plates at least and the suspension would have to meet the travel limits for each class.

[HeavenVMX]

The rules do not allow modified suspension on '75/'76 models even though back in '75, '76 & '77 there were heaps of bikes with modified LTR. Go figure! So unless you can buy 600mm shocks with 9" travel

The generally accepted interpretation, we think, (what a wonderful way to write rules) of the rules as far as carry over follow on ( now reads much better) models is that it effectively makes a '75 CR125M into a '74 models as far as the rules are concerned. The intent of the rules seems to be to exclude Pre75 bikes from Pre78 so if the '75 CR125M is deemed a Pre75 bike it, by association, is out of Pre78.

13.14.5.2 Front wheel travel will not exceed 229mm
(9 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited
to 229mm (9 inches) measured at the
axle. Rear shock absorbers will be in
the original position using the original
mounting points

[jerry]

I have a MK6 Pursang that i converted up to a MK7. The primitive suspension was too much for my 58 year old spine, so I put a MK 8 swingarm on and a set of Marzocchi forks from a 1977 KTM. In effect its a MK 8 Pursang which I think could have been put together in 1977 (if you wanted too!) and I believe its legal for Pre 78 as all the parts were available before that date (just!)It does shift on the right side which betrays the age of the motor 72/73. I noted on Sunday with gun rider Matt Rossignolli onboard it took care of Momus's RM 370 (except on the straights!) J

[Momus]

Yes it could be possible to use a follow on model from Pre 75, in my opinion, but would you want to change the suspension between races and the prefix on the number plate.

In my opinion every bike in the Pre 78 class should have a "Z" on the number plates at least and the suspension would have to meet the travel limits for each class.

Thanks KTM. The bike would be ridden in Pre78 with 4/7 suspension so no travel issue there.

Jerry: I enjoyed tussling with Matt, made for a good day.

[Nathan S]

As has been discussed so many times before, what we "know" the rules say, what we think the rules mean, and what the rules are accepted to mean, are all irrelevant.

What matters is what's written.
A 1975 Honda CR125 meets the rules for Pre-78, and is an accepted Pre-75 carry-over model.

There is no published reason why the one bike cannot be raced in both classes.

[bigk]

Can't argue with Nathan's logic on that one, but if it were me, I'd be making some phone calls to clarify things.
K

[HeavenVMX]

Agree with your logic Nathan.

That means the Bultaco described above is actually out ('72/73 engine and modified frame) the '75 CR125M must run in Pre78 with standard rear suspension mounts in place and used. This then conflicts with the fact a 1976-78 Suzuki TS400 which has the newer centre port engine and twin down tube frame (both introduced in 1976) is eligible for Pre75. While we try to apply logic the rules don't.

[KTM47]

Yes it could be possible to use a follow on model from Pre 75, in my opinion, but would you want to change the suspension between races and the prefix on the number plate.

In my opinion every bike in the Pre 78 class should have a "Z" on the number plates at least and the suspension would have to meet the travel limits for each class.

Thanks KTM. The bike would be ridden in Pre78 with 4/7 suspension so no travel issue there.

Jerry: I enjoyed tussling with Matt, made for a good day.

But would you change the prefix on the number plates?  Also all that I have done is give an opinion.  The club could reject the entry of the same bike in the two classes.

[KTM47]

Everyone also please note.  The MoMS does not refer to carry over models, it is "follow on".

[Nathan S]

The club could reject the entry of the same bike in the two classes.

On what grounds?