Author Topic: Global warming - I don't get it?  (Read 60278 times)

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 09:17:42 am »
Totally disagree with the apparent consensus on this topic - so please don't assume I go along with the nonsense about it all being a UN plot or scientists just lining their pocket. I race but I don't deny the chance - the likelihood - they're on the money.

Offline djr

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 10:33:52 am »
Scientists tell us there was an Ice Age, thousands of years ago,
Scientists also tell us that most of this Ice melted several thousand years ago.
How did this happen ?
Was there Global Warming thousands of years before Humans  invented - Cars, trucks, Power Stations etc. ?

Maybe I am just one of those flat earth people  :) :)

Offline Graeme M

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 11:08:43 am »
Hmmm... I can see this one risks taking off!  While I have no problem with discussions about non-VMX matters in the General Discussion forum, I know that many members aren't keen on such discussions clogging up the forum.

Really, Global Warming has been around for a while as a topic of discussion in many quarters so I think it's safe to say you can learn all you want by visiting the many many websites and forums that tackle that specific issue.

Can I just say that as someone who has read extensively on this topic, it's not at all simple and straight forward. It is a very complex matter and just shooting from the hip and saying well it was hot/cold/indifferent yesterday has absolutely nothing to do with the science.

There are very good grounds for claiming that the world is warming and that this may cause problems in the future; yet there are also very good grounds for claiming that the warming has been exaggerated and that we may not face quite the catastrophic outcomes being proposed.

You might learn more by doing your own research. The sorts of comments being thrown around here are pretty sketchy I must say!   ;)

Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic, which in the scheme of things is actually pretty significant. I'll leave it to run for now but if it gets too painful I'm gonna lock it off.

Offline Lozza

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 11:18:35 am »
AND anyone that questions it is branded a none believer and subjected to the modern version of the witch craft trials. Philosophically thrown in a river and if they drown they are innocent but fortunately dead and silent and if they swim they are dragged out and burnt at the stake and umm dead and silent.

1st it was global warming when that proved to be false it became climate change and when that is slowly being dispelled it is now globally serious weather events.

Carbon dioxide is <4% of the atmosphere and has changed about 0.16% and historically has been much much higher than present values but ...... oh shit someone is suggesting that I have a swim in the creek.

The UN and Al Gore have made 100s of millions of $US out of this stuff. It is all about redistributing wealth on a globe basis except Al he kept his. Wealthy countries pay poor countries to grow trees.

This is my personal view not Heaven VMX club.

How did the UN "make millions" out of climate change exactly? Where has all that money been 'redistributed' to? I suppose the Koch Brothers made a loss from oil and their personal wealth didn't grow from 20 Billion to 80 billion in the last 7 years?
Science differs from religion as it's based on measured data and facts. Not opinion, heresay or conjecture.
In order to believe there is a conspiracy about global warming that every climate scientist in the world has been forced or bribed into producing false data, that every scientist from the lowest lab technician to the head of NASA has colluded on a worldwide scale to commit acts of professional and criminal misconduct for financial or ideological reasons(or both). Verses vested interests with very deep pockets the ability to manufacture fear, doubt and controversy by spreading deliberate misinformation via right wing think tanks and media moguls giving airtime to spread the doubt .......which sounds a lot like what the tobacco industry did.
Even if there was a proven worldwide conspriacy by every scientific organisation in the world feverishing manipulating data while waiting for brown paper bags full of cash to be delivered, it doesn't explain how they can can get flowers to bloom earlier, birds, fish and insects to change their migration habits at the same time making the polar ice melt at alarming rates
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Offline kdx Geoff

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 03:13:30 pm »

Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic,

That's what l don't get  ???
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HeavenVMX

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2016, 03:03:53 am »
Even if there was a proven worldwide conspriacy by every scientific organisation in the world feverishing manipulating data while waiting for brown paper bags full of cash to be delivered, it doesn't explain how they can can get flowers to bloom earlier, birds, fish and insects to change their migration habits at the same time making the polar ice melt at alarming rates

No one mentioned conspiracy only you. Virtually no one denies that the climate is changing just as it has since the birth of our planet. The debate centres on the predominant cause or if it is actually abnormal at all.

What do you think a carbon trading scheme is if it is not redistributing wealth. Wealthy industrialised people/companies/countries pay less developed people/companies/countries to operate carbon negative industries which otherwise would be uneconomical such as growing forests/jungles to 'capture' carbon. The wealthy 'payer' can then go on producing carbon dioxide unimpeded. The UN wants to act as the conduit to facilitate these schemes and naturally take a percentage to cover costs.

Read some of these articles about historical temperature and climate trends. They are reasonable basic but are interesting. The 2nd last one is topically interesting as it shows that average global temperatures peaked around 2003 and have actually declined since then. This is apposed to climate 'events' which have increased.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/controversy.html
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/20thcentury.html
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/gwdiscussion.html

OR do you just want to throw anyone that does not run out and buy a Toyota Prius in a lake/river to see if they drown or get burnt at the stake.

I don't expect this to change your view whatever that view is and I accept that.

again this is just my personal view not Heaven VMX club
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 03:17:14 am by HeavenVMX »

Offline EdgyAl

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 06:54:58 am »


Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic
Isn't this site occupied by blokes that like dirt bikes, that should be able to debate stuff without crying.
Looks like tissue sales are on the rise.

Offline Graeme M

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2016, 07:07:23 am »

Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic,

That's what l don't get  ???

I suppose it's what I observed earlier - some people don't like discussions about non-vmx related issues on a VMX forum, especially if that topic starts to attract many comments and thereby dominate the list of recent posts. Others are firmly in the camp that global warming is happening and simply don't believe that there should be discussion about the possibility that it isn't.

Personally I find global warming a very interesting subject and after an awful lot of my own reading/research have come to see it as a powerful example of how social contexts influence and constrain public and scientific opinions. I admit to being highly sceptical myself, but I tend to keep my views and comments to the appropriate forums where I have had many long and entertaining discussions with both pro and anti viewpoints.

As far as OzVMX goes, I think I am on the side of those who'd rather not have this discussion here. It's not VMX related, it can not resolve anything, it is of the nature of the various 'rules' related topics in that it will simply go around in circles, no-one will change their minds and it may even get messy. Why bother? As I said if you really want to discuss it, there are a zillion forums out there doing just that. If you want to learn more, there are also plenty of sources available. But it's quite a complex matter.

Equally however I don't think OzVMX should be about stifling debate if people want to discuss something which is why I've often let rules discussions go longer than perhaps I should have. I think there is a rather frightening tendency in today's world to close down debate when there are contentious issues at hand - the idea seeming to be that people shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion if others think it wrong. And that is NOT what I believe we should promote here.

So it's tricky, I don't wish to be heavy handed in moderating this forum based on some notion of political correctness but equally I don't wish us to become side-tracked by non-relevant discussion. My view is simple - OzVMX is about old dirtbikes. I think we should keep it to that.













Offline crash n bern

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2016, 08:16:49 am »
If you read through history, every century has had a 'The sky is falling' fear mongering campaign. Whether it is just human nature, or a conspiracy by higher powers to keep people in fear, I don't know. We all remember as a kid, the boogeyman will get us if we don't behave. Some people even believe that if they kill those who don't believe they will go to heaven and have 72 virgins at their disposal. Humans are pretty messed up.

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2016, 08:24:00 am »
as far as I know, the current CO2 levels are way higher than that required to affect the atmosphere so a carbon trading scheme is close to religion in my book. your trading something you cant see and people just tell you to pay up or the big one will get you. a volcano puffs out waaayyy more co2 in an eruption than the general population. human pollutants ie plastic in the ocean are a far more significant threat to us than co2 ...no money in that tho...

Offline Tahitian_Red

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2016, 09:04:58 am »
If the Globe is warming, why can't you go ahead and use the optional Suzuki RM125B swingarm on your Pre-78 RM125 and why hasn't Walter deleted his posts?  ;)
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Offline Graeme M

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2016, 09:10:16 am »
Now I hesitate to jump into this one, but there are a couple of inaccuracies here.

First, the problem of CO2 in the atmosphere is that it continues to raise the radiative forcing the more you add, although there is a good argument that at about 550-600ppm (parts per million) the effect is exhausted (some claim that is already the case). That means that the more CO2, the more the atmosphere warms. The rule of thumb is that for a doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial levels of 280ppm to 560ppm, the direct forcing increases by something in the order of 1-2 degrees C. The catastrophic bit comes from positive feedbacks which increase the effect to something like between 2 and 5 degrees C. That is, the atmosphere could warm by as much as 5 C on average for a CO2 level of 560ppm.

However more recent estimates suggest direct forcing might be closer to 1.2 C or less, and feedbacks are currently not well quantified. It is possible feedbacks are net negative.

The reason that we need to reduce CO2 emissions is that we haven't yet doubled CO2 from pre-industrial levels. We are currently at something like 410-420ppm I believe. Well short of the 560ppm a doubling would mean. Keeping CO2 levels to not much more than we are currently at would mean, according to the science, an average increase of less than 2C. That is, if we keep CO2 from increasing by too much more, we might avert catastrophic global warming.

So according to the science, we still need to reduce CO2 emissions.

As for volcanoes, as best we know they emit on average less than 1 billion tonnes of CO2 per annum. Humans produce something like 30 billion tonnes of CO2 per annum.

The optional RM125B swingarm issue is significantly more complicated...

Offline fred99999au

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2016, 09:13:01 am »
I reckon you're spot on Graeme.

I also think that in modern times people seem to have the tendency to whinge and moan and demand it be changed when something is not to their liking rather than just move on to something that is.

Offline Mike52

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2016, 01:39:22 pm »
I'm trying to figure out why the sea level in Sydney harbour has only risen 4mm [ yep 4mm not 4cm or 4ft ] in the last 100 years.
At this rate it will reach the  expert predicted heights in the next 1000 years.

Don't just blindly believe or disbelieve what I have written as fact go and check it out for your self.
The BOM has been keeping records that are available on line.

I'm also glad that the " OZONE HOLE " is no longer a problem. ;)
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Friend  struggling up a hill on a old bike at MTMee .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjj6E2MP9xU.

Offline bigk

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Re: Global warming - I don't get it?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2016, 04:49:23 pm »
Perhaps global warming is the reason YZ490's ping like there's no tomorrow? It may well be VMX related after all.
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