Author Topic: Bike prices.  (Read 28567 times)

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Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2016, 08:18:49 am »
recently a punter was flogging his hk Monaro 307 4sp. genuine motor..very nice example of the marque as Arthur Daly would say...it got to $79,500 and he pulled the ad..reserve at 80 im thinking..then its straight back on...gets to 87k and he pulls the ad again...hmmm fishing for 100k methinks. straight back on and it stops at 70k...failed!

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2016, 12:20:48 pm »
recently a punter was flogging his hk Monaro 307 4sp. genuine motor..very nice example of the marque as Arthur Daly would say...it got to $79,500 and he pulled the ad..reserve at 80 im thinking..then its straight back on...gets to 87k and he pulls the ad again...hmmm fishing for 100k methinks. straight back on and it stops at 70k...failed!

Yep. That sort of stunt makes buyers unwilling to deal with the 'seller'.
It will probably appear on Carpoint and/or Gumtree for $100k, complete with an ad that whinges about time wasters and low-ballers....

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline VMX247

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2016, 07:23:50 pm »
Reading on those prices have just visited a HRD Vincent collection and the gentlman was saying a 58a sold today for $450k this morning.
Rare and low quantity stuff gets the big $$$ and collectors have deep fat pockets.
Steven spotted a HRD for 25k 15yrs ago and said he couldnt justify the price  :P   ::)
Best is in the West !!

Offline Tex

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2016, 12:34:02 am »
Thanks for the informed responses skypig and Nathan S. Does the same logic apply to enduro bikes as well as motocrossers? For example WR400F and WR426F, and CRF250X etc etc? Judging by how cheaply some of them can be had, I can only assume it does...

Tex

Offline skypig

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2016, 01:43:24 am »
Thanks for the informed responses skypig and Nathan S. Does the same logic apply to enduro bikes as well as motocrossers? For example WR400F and WR426F, and CRF250X etc etc? Judging by how cheaply some of them can be had, I can only assume it does...

Tex

The risk of an expensive (relative to the purchase price) repair is present with any second hand high perforfmance 4 stroke (IMHO). Unless it's from a known and trusted source.
That doesn't mean there aren't some good bikes for sale second hand - but know the risk. Ask lots of questions.
I've bought a few second hand KTM 4 strokes. One needed two inlet valves immediately (discovered when I tried to adjust the clearance after purchase.) I did all the mechanical work myself. Sent the head away. Supplying and fitting two valves, cam chain, gaskets. >$500 from memory. The bike was running ok, but maybe a little hard to start in hind site.

Anything that can be used for trail riding etc is usually going to be worth more, and easier to sell than a specialized MX bike. Lots of people are happy to ride a superseded trail bike, many less are interested in racing modern MX on one only a few models old.

Yamaha's, and KTM RFS (except for soft inlet valves) have the best reliablility record for HiPo modern four strokes. There are some models in most other brands to be avoided.

Caveat emptor



Offline skypig

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2016, 01:57:48 am »
On the same vein.

The price of spares is very high, while as discussed, second hand bikes are cheap. (Till they are vintage.)

I'm looking around at modern trials bikes at the moment.
I've come across a few story's of people saying by the time they got the cheaper one they bought, "right", they could have bought a much newer one for the same total cost.

EG if you got an old WR426 "cheap", it could cost close to a later model WR450 by the time it's fixed up.
The bike (suspension etc) is still out dated. And it's still almost worthless to sell!

IMHO, the bikes to look for are the ones bought by people like me: Delusions of grandeur, and a rush of blood to the head. Buy a brand new WR/KTM, ride it a few times, park it for a while, decide they need a Jet ski/new kitchen instead, and sell it on Gumtree....
(Ok, a little like me....I rarely sell bikes...)

Offline crash n bern

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2016, 09:27:40 am »
Reading on those prices have just visited a HRD Vincent collection and the gentlman was saying a 58a sold today for $450k this morning.
Rare and low quantity stuff gets the big $$$ and collectors have deep fat pockets.
Steven spotted a HRD for 25k 15yrs ago and said he couldnt justify the price  :P   ::)

Wow, they were at $75-100,000 just a couple of years ago.

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2016, 11:58:19 am »
Thanks for the informed responses skypig and Nathan S. Does the same logic apply to enduro bikes as well as motocrossers? For example WR400F and WR426F, and CRF250X etc etc? Judging by how cheaply some of them can be had, I can only assume it does...

Tex

The recently superseded Yamaha 250F motor is an interesting example on this one... Same basic motor in the WRF & YZF (although the WRF kept using it for longer).

When you cut through the guff, the YZF doesn't last well. Cranks are short lived, clutches are hopeless, pistons and valves aren't great (but nor are they the worst).
Meanwhile, the WRF has a deserved reputation for lasting much longer than most 250Fs - the difference is in the usage: the YZF is way more likely to have the shit revved out of it, and that brings the lifespan way down. And an anal-rententive maintenance schedule for air filter & oil/oil filter doesn't do much to improve that.

So it really comes down to how they're used - and the same goes for cranks in CRF250X vs R.

I've also heard a knowledgable bloke aim that he's seen Honda heads with the valve seat cut 0.6mm off centre to the valve guide (not a typo!). I don't even know how you could do that if you tried, but if you wonder why the valves last so little time on some Hondas, despite the owners giving them all the care in the world....

Final thought while I wait for lunch time:
The other thing a that a modern 4T will generally run perfectly well until the moment it sprays it's innards all down the track... Because a lot of the blow ups are caused by fatigue failures, rather no than simple old "wearing out".
A typical 2T (or TT/XR) that wears out, gives you plenty of warning: low compression on the kickstarter; hard to start; rattly; vibey; blows more smoke; etc. and you can usually get away with ignoring those symptoms for ages before they bite you.


The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2016, 12:07:01 pm »
when buying any of these bikes I always factor in the cost of a full rebuild and see if its worth buying. a mate has a late model yzf and it lunched it self (his fault) but the cost of repair is killing him. he paid good money, got a good run out of it and was on the verge of selling it to go vintage and then it had a "son related" maintenance f*kup requiring a ground up in the motor dept. so he will pay way more than its worth to get it going and then sell it for what he can get. not much more that you can do other than wreck it push it in the shed for a later date etc.

Offline mick25

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2016, 12:28:50 pm »
I have noticed lately on these late model bikes ,
They are designed to wear fast and not last .
The reason dollars for spares sold , some poor bastard is told by the big chief don't design that part to to last or work well , must do there heads in .
The ktm is better than the yamahas what I have seen but I have noticed some small stupid designs on the ktm .

Offline skypig

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2016, 01:44:41 pm »
I don't think late model bikes are necessarily "designed to wear out fast".
Maximum output and longevity are often mutually exclusive.

Many '60's and '70's race bikes required frequent rebuilds to remain competitive and reliable.

40RWHP (with incredible rideability and reliability*) out of a 250cc four stroke is amazing in my mind.
Can't expect 40hp and 14000rpm bike to last like a 18? Hp XL250.

There must be a growing pile of blown up, relatively late model 4 strokes lying around almost worthless. Only likely to be wrecked for parts.   

*failures of low hour/well maintained bikes are rare.

Offline Tim754

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2016, 02:04:53 pm »
 Understanding Bike Prices .
Factor 1 The price the seller wants/sets.
Factor 2 The amount the buyer would be willing/not willing to pay.
Factor 3 Negotiation between above parties with sale or no sale outcome.

How difficult is that for some people to grasp?????
 
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Offline Harko

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2016, 02:14:47 pm »
I've been watching Fast and Loud on Fox and on the odd occasion have adopted the low ball technique. Needless to say I'm very familiar with the sound of grown men laughing .                                     

Harko

Offline bishboy

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2016, 02:48:03 pm »
when buying any of these bikes I always factor in the cost of a full rebuild and see if its worth buying. a mate has a late model yzf and it lunched it self (his fault) but the cost of repair is killing him. he paid good money, got a good run out of it and was on the verge of selling it to go vintage and then it had a "son related" maintenance f*kup requiring a ground up in the motor dept. so he will pay way more than its worth to get it going and then sell it for what he can get. not much more that you can do other than wreck it push it in the shed for a later date etc.

Good reason to put 2T engine in it  :)

Offline HVA61

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Re: Bike prices.
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2016, 06:27:07 pm »
A number of my friends have current and reasonably current 4T enduro bikes that are ridden very well and maintained very well . I have not personally witnessed a dramatic failure as described .  I ride 2T  , as that's my preference.

Good , regular maintenance usually results in a good outcome
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