nikasil iron cylinder liners

[mx250]

I have this idea in the back of my mind for sometimes, to nikasil iron cylinder liners. I haven't had a pressing need so I haven't actively investigated the prospect. My motivation was more along the lines of saving rare 4th o/s barrels although the prospect to save weight was entertained (and all the other Nikasil advantages).

I recently came across this thread on another foum I visit from time to time.

http://www.usa2strokers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22007&PN=1

I draw your attention to the following.....

"I plated the iron liner so it doesn't wear. I just put a new piston in every 8 to 12 races. Doesn't improve heat transfer like plating on aluminum, but I can likely run this bore for years. My first one without plating needed a bore once or twice a season." SCRacing 2/3 the way down.

I would think that the prospect for restoration and racing is attractive. So what does the 'Brains Trust' think?

[oldfart]

 I think there is a place in Sydney that can plate bores and put some sort of new bute coating on them ......this was brought up in the last site 

[Lozza]

Scott is a pretty smart bloke but I'd disagree with plating a cast iron bore. Why well universal liners are pretty cheap and it's a doddle to put them in.Second is you lose the main advantage of having a plated bore by keeping the iron liner
However the Institute's boffin's are well on top of the ultimate resleeve

[Freakshow]

Been THINKING THIS FOR A WHILE MYSELF,  Surely you can coat a cylinder and save it. Can nika or other stick to though ?

[Hoony]

i posed the question to Electrosil in Melb' and was told that a cast iron liner cannot be coated ! i have had a few original cylinders recoated by them and they do great work so i would be interested if a cast iron liner can be done by someone else

[Freakshow]

i posed the question to Electrosil in Melb' and was told that a cast iron liner cannot be coated ! i have had a few original cylinders recoated by them and they do great work so i would be interested if a cast iron liner can be done by someone else

Arent all early cylinders cast iron sleeves to start with ?  when you say original cylinders coated,  what cylinders where they ? and coated with what ? ceramics ? I have a vauge feeling when we had a RD race bike we tried coating the bore in ceramics or tring to get somthing like the TZ set up going,  but i cant remember
what it was, i think we also tried some kind of baked on thing, stuff.  in the end it did work and im sure they was sleeved out because we had ported the crap out of the barrels and ran wacky heads with seal in them and we didnt want to have to start again on a new set up when it hit the over sizes.

IM sure based on the $400 for a normal retail sleevin and report the coating might be an option now the coating systems have stabilised.  what say the institute ( * lowers the cone of silence)

[mx250]

Scott is a pretty smart bloke but I'd disagree with plating a cast iron bore. Why well universal liners are pretty cheap and it's a doddle to put them in.Second is you lose the main advantage of having a plated bore by keeping the iron liner
However the Institute's boffin's are well on top of the ultimate resleeve

When I was day dreaming about such things I was imagining replacing iron liners with aluminium liners and nikoplating (by whatever propritory copyrighted trade marked process). I thought the biggest hurdle was to get appropreiate rings .

I was quite surprised by the nikoplating onto iron as Scott specs.

I respect Scotts opinion I've read a few and he appears levelheaded and experienced in such things. I thought the quote above was quite specific.

[Hoony]

the cylinders were  Honda CR250 nikasil coated alloy.

[Lozza]

Graeme, I 'talk' to Scott about things on a fairly regular basis about 2T tuning.He's a pretty good rider to as well as a great tuner.
Rings are not a problem as rings for iron liners are fine for NICASIL liners.Nicasil is different from 'Chrome' bores which require different rings. I have the details for a mob in South Africa that will do all the welding ,chamfering and honing that it takes for $210 AUD +shipping.Best is you get an actual warranty not like here I am sad to say.
Coating a iron liner is really a WOFTAM

[mx250]

Coating a iron liner is really a WOFTAM

If Scott's experience holds true then it can save wear on the bore; piston only replacements. That seems a pretty good deal @ $210 for the old and raced.

[Freakshow]

So whats the consensus then - normal steel barrels can be lined ? 

and who is going to be the test bunny ? 
will the coating dis-place back up a bore size or will it need to be pulled out a size before being built up ( AKA what thickness is the coating ) i say that because a 2nd oversize piston is easier to get your hands on than a 3rd or 4th so every size your up is a bonus, innfactif you could sleeve and coat at standard you can feed it heaps of standard pistons as they litterly give them away as not many folk can use them, there all hunting 3rd and 4th overs :O)

I know i have woftam befor e, but please help me im senile already, punch drunk or probally just to stupid to remember

[Lozza]

Yes iron can be lined as easily as ali can but keeping the iron liner (except for no bore wear) defeats the purpose of having the plating.
My reading would be to plate to the maximum cc limit, nobody said that the piston MUST be from that make and model did it now

[mx250]

So whats the consensus then - normal steel barrels can be lined ? 

From my understanding they are several similar but different electro-plating processes generallised to Nico-plating. I would check with the plater to be sure.

will the coating dis-place back up a bore size or will it need to be pulled out a size before being built up ( AKA what thickness is the coating ) i say that because a 2nd oversize piston is easier to get your hands on than a 3rd or 4th so every size your up is a bonus, innfactif you could sleeve and coat at standard you can feed it heaps of standard pistons as they litterly give them away as not many folk can use them, there all hunting 3rd and 4th overs :O)

I wouldn't expect the coating to be laid on that thick to make up that type of difference. I would expect it to be sorted after detailed chats with the plater a bit in the same way you (me anyway) haved to rely on the knowledge and expertise of a re-borer to set the tolerences of a normal boring job.

I'm not knowledgeable but I would expect some piston material would perform better with a plate bore compared to others - different silcon content, expansion rates etc etc.

[Freakshow]

http://www.bore-tech.com/carbidebore.htm

prices on the second page. cheaper thani thought.

[mx250]

http://www.bore-tech.com/carbidebore.htm

prices on the second page. cheaper thani thought.

Does anyone know if anyone in Oz is offering similar service?