2016 MoMS out

[John Orchard]

Hmmm, I am in favour of the 'Pre 90' ruling only so that there is less confusion.  Really, as others have said before "Evo is not really an 'aged based' class, I guess only in that the majority (all) of bikes pre 1981 were air-cooled, drum-braked, non-linkage.

Aside from the historic reasoning, it would still be interesting to watch/ride a class is just that 'air-cooled, drum-braked, non-linkage'.  Maybe it could take it out of the realm of 'vintage' but I doubt it.

Even if someone put a CR500 engine in a '79 250 chassis, so what, the CR500 is still a 'vintage' machine engine from a 32 year old bike.

I bailed-out of the Evo class because I couldn't use the '84 KX forks on my '79 KX250/400 because they were from a disc-brake model, they were completely stock internally, yet someone with a ton of money could completely revamp the internals of a set of YZ465 forks!

Personally for the sake of vintage appeal, I would like non USD forks added to the basic class ruling  :-)

[KTM47]

There is no point making suggestions for rule changes.  We have what we have now, which really haven't changed much, but I now have a written statement that says you can not convert a bike to the class.  That is enough for me.  Also most EVO bikes are Pre82 the only real exception is the 84 Husky 500 class bikes.

The process for changes the rules for the 2017 MoMS will start soon.

I'm satisfied with the answers I got and will (yes will) protest anything I see wrong.

[Nathan S]

I ... will (yes will) protest anything I see wrong.

Good. It's the only way this shit-fight will ever be cleared up properly.

[Freakshow]

There is no point making suggestions for rule changes.  We have what we have now, which really haven't changed much, but I now have a written statement that says you can not convert a bike to the class.  That is enough for me.  Also most EVO bikes are Pre82 the only real exception is the 84 Husky 500 class bikes.

The process for changes the rules for the 2017 MoMS will start soon.

I'm satisfied with the answers I got and will (yes will) protest anything I see wrong.

Sorry but i don't think you have the scrutineers on the ground to enforce it, you having a letter means nothing if its not at the tracks around the country, bikes even at national level get through that do not comply to the rules for which they were entered.   Unfortunately its going to become a self scrutineer system and even now people are to scared to rock the boat or be an outcast, so the book needs to be the religion, not an interpretation.

[John Orchard]

Yep the book must be the religion or I'm never going to a National to be at the whim of the Scrutineer.

[Graeme M]

Just a reminder to all to keep comments directed at the rules themselves, rather than imputing motives or intent to anyone or any organisation. That is partly to be fair to all parties and partly to limit fallout in my direction. Thank you.

[bigk]

Heaven: No I do not agree the current rules allow 1990 based evo bikes, they simply don't unless you apply the nth degree flawed logic which some obviously are. I guess some people like the sound of their own voices. It won't happen because no-one will be stupid enough to spend the big dollars just to attempt to prove a moot point.

Nathan: Please explain to me how a set of US spec '89 KX forks (conventional/disc brake) can be used on an EVO bike without any modification?

On a different note, it seems that some guys can get away with anything anyway, just depends who you are. I clearly saw an international rider campaign a set of Ohlins USD forks (1st available 1998) on a CR500 in the Pre '90 class at a recent international event. No protests & maybe a pat on the back for being a good bloke for attending the event. Where were all your voices then?
Take it on the chin & work within the rules. It's pretty easy really.
K

[FourstrokeForever]

Well, what an INTERESTING read this lot is.....

On one hand we have those that (me included) read the rules as having pre90 components acceptable for use in Evolution class racing.....On the other, we have those that want our moral compass to guide us along the path of righteousness....HOW ABOUT A SET OF RULES THAT SPELL THE LOT OUT IN BLACK AND WHITE.....it can't be that hard MA

BUT as for me, having given the whole scheebang a bit more thought, what are those components I could legally use when applying the Aircooled, drum brake, non linkage suspension theme as my guide? The answer is NONE! It would cost more than one testicle to build an Evo eligible machine out of a Disc brake, water cooled, USD fork and link suspension bike and I couldn't see it being a world beater in it's own right anyway.

I'm all for being able to use any aircooled motor you like as long as it slots into a GENUINE twinshock/non linkage frame. Yep, I'm a big boy and I realise there will be flack in my direction......

[Nathan S]

Nathan: Please explain to me how a set of US spec '89 KX forks (conventional/disc brake) can be used on an EVO bike without any modification?

It's not in the rules anymore.

Basically the rules don't even pretend to care how you get there, you just have to end up with an AC/DB/NL bike that's built from Pre-90 components.

[KTM47]

 "13.14.6.2 Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed."

[pinned]

John, I wouldn't worry too much about being at the whim of the scrutineers at these big events, which was proven at the Conandale Classic this year.Numerous bikes at scrutineering were classed as Ineligible for the EVO class by the scrutineers . After a protest was put forward to the steward. The protest was upheld and the machines were reinstated. Hope to see you up here next year having fun at the Nationals.

[Nathan S]

"13.14.6.2 Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed."

Later than 1989. Now in black and white.

[William Doe]

Heaven: No I do not agree the current rules allow 1990 based evo bikes, they simply don't unless you apply the nth degree flawed logic which some obviously are. I guess some people like the sound of their own voices. It won't happen because no-one will be stupid enough to spend the big dollars just to attempt to prove a moot point.

Nathan: Please explain to me how a set of US spec '89 KX forks (conventional/disc brake) can be used on an EVO bike without any modification?

I would interpret that to mean that I can fabricate a bracket to bolt onto the caliper mounting on the leg that has a lug to lock the drum brake backing plate . I have seen it done before , I would think that must comply even under previous rule that said without modification . The fork has not been modified as such just had an extra bracket bolted to it. At any time the forks could be bolted back into the 89 bike as they have not been modified . 

On a different note, it seems that some guys can get away with anything anyway, just depends who you are. I clearly saw an international rider campaign a set of Ohlins USD forks (1st available 1998) on a CR500 in the Pre '90 class at a recent international event. No protests & maybe a pat on the back for being a good bloke for attending the event. Where were all your voices then?
Take it on the chin & work within the rules. It's pretty easy really.
K

[LWC82PE]

I always felt that EVO should be about twinshock/non linkaged/aircooled bikes 1978-1984 models and not allow components from bikes in the class above eg parts off pre 85 or pre 90 bikes. I don't understand why people want to build bikes that did not exist back then.

Maybe a better way would be to have 2 pre 85 classes rather than an EVO class. If it has watercooling, linkage rear or disc brake then it would be in the 'normal' pre 85 class as we have it now, lets call it 'Pre 85 class 1' then all other bikes 78-84 models can go in a second pre 85 class called 'pre 85 class 2' Then you have a blanket statement stating no components from linkaged/disc/watercooled pre 85 class 1 bikes to be used on pre 85 class 2  bikes and then its so much simpler and really cuts out the confusion and stops all the upgraded franken bikes etc. I think the main issue currently is that there is not really a defined year cut off for EVO, well by the looks of it now its 1989, which is crazy if you ask me.

[bazza]

Evolution

1.  All motors must be air-cooled only and have a maximum of 2 cylinders. No liquid cooled models or bikes modified with Liquid cooled engines qualify.

2.  No linkage rear shock suspension. Twin Shock or Cantilever (e.g. early Yamaha monocross with no linkage) only.

3.  No upside down forks, or disc brakes. Air Caps on forks and Remote Reservoir shock absorbers are ok.

Life is easy in unzud