Boyd and Stelling.

[firko]

OK....Here's a Boyd and Stellings swingarm for sale right now. Rare as rocking horse shit. This is the only Maico one I've ever seen besides mine

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAICO-BOYD-AND-STELLINGS-ALLOY-SWINGARM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6752QQihZ011QQitemZ320261960093

[mx250]

$183US

Gee, that was a bargain for someone.

[JC]

Mark,

Thats a very spiffy find - better than the cheney suz in my mind too. That will be a superb pre-75 open classer. Very trick.

Wrt how the adjustable rake works, my guess is that the bottm bolt is the pivot & the top one has some sort of rotateable cam arrangement.

I have some articles on the B&S framed 'project lighthorn' (F9 kaw) & they got it working very nicely back in 73/74.

[Phil]

Sweet find. I love these trick bikes. Like GMC said, it's great that Firko, Jonesy and others are bringing these cool bikes into the country. When you look at that Boyd and Stelling and the $1400 it cost and compare it what you'd get for $1400 on the local market, it's a no brainer bringing these bikes into the country. Much more bang for your buck.

[firko]

My Boyd and Stellings TM400 Suzuki is now on it's way to its new home in the heart of Sydneys Golden West.
Here it is all palleted up at the shipping agent in Long Beach, CA. The bike looks even better that I thought in these shots. Looks like I've scored a couple of pairs of tiedowns and a cool American milk crate in the deal as well. Bob Neilson, the seller has been a pleasure to deal with all through this operation and his dedication to doing it right is shown by the cool Triumph pallet.







Preferred Transport Systems in Long Beach where my B&S Suzuki, Rickman Metisse frame and bodywork, and 4 DT2MX pipes and two GYT DT1 pipes as well as Jonesys Weslake Metisse and American Eagle 250 roller are being loaded into the container. All of the stuff in the foreground is destined for Australia, including the cool little Sunbeam Tiger 'Maxwell Smart replica'.
[/img]

[Hoony]

now the long wait begins Mark (like a kid at christmas) at least you have a few more toys to keep you busy.

[vandy010]

the bike looks great Firko! and i still reckon it has a Maico~ish look to it.
hope fully it'll go ok with that box of cow power in it.

[firko]

I can't quite see the Maico in the B&S Vandy but once she's here I'll do the comparo. I'm a newbie to the wonderful world of Hamamatsu so I'm open to all sorts of advice on getting these old TM 400s working sensibly. The big thing with them seems to be the weird ignition curve. From all of the stories I've heard, the best cure for their weirdness seems to be replacing the TM ignition with the TS external flywheel setup and if I can find one, to replace the lightweight TM half circle crankshaft with a TS full circle flywheel version. I'd really prefer to go with a more modern ignition for reliability sake and will look into a PVL or take Lozzas clue and talk to my old friend Jens Olsen about building something workable. I'd love to hear any clues on getting these buggers working as well as possible. I realise I'm not going to get the engine as sweet as a big bore Maico or even a 360 Yamaha but I'll be more than happy to make the big bugger reliable and above all....ridable!.

As Yamaboy aluded to elsewhere, I'm also doing a quicky makeover on the VMX project bike TM/TS250 using the basket case TM I picked up a couple of years ago to supply the parts needed. The plan is to have the B&S 400, the TM/TS 250 and the Honcho 90 working as a matching trio. For a bloke that's had very little to do with Suzukis over the years I'm finding it kinda weird that I've now got three on the production line!

.

[suzuki43]

Welcome to the home of champions Firko 

[Doc]

yes, very nice bike Firko congrats. The TS full circle crank I believe is a myth too. No such critter existed and if it did I cannot find any reference to it anywhere and have personally never seen one. I look forward to seeing some close up pics

[firko]

Thanks Doc, I was fairly certain there wasn't any difference in the cranks after talking to my mate Edgar who know such things but I've twice seen reference to full circle cranks in print so I figured there must have been one produced atsome stage during the 400s life.
In your position as a recognised Suzuki guru Doc, can you tell me the differences between the early and late TM 400 engines and the TM and TS? I misunderstood Bob the seller when he told me about the engine in my B&S. It turns out that I got a very early TM engine with it but the bike originally had a tricked up late model TM engine, which he has apparently kept for another project. He told me there is a difference in the cranks as well.

Please enlighten me O wide one!

[Doc]

O wide one!..I have been called many things in my life Mark but never a wide one if it was meant to be O wise one then you'd be wrong again as I am far from a 'guru' in any shape or form but, I'll give you a list of a few little things changed between models. Supposedly the head on the '74-'75 L and M models was reshaped to drop compression in the hope it would become more rideable. The cylinder are the same right through.  I've been told the '75 had differing ratios also but this I am yet to confirm as all my info shows exactly the same ratios from '71-'75 same with the cranks, all the same right through according the parts books. Carburation was changed for the '74 and then again for '75 These changes only affects the jetting and slide cutaway. the actual carb is the same. The exhausts were the same for the first three years and then with the l and M model it was changed for each and it then had a removable muffler fitted for '74-'75. The ignition was also change on the '74-'75 but what these changes entailed I have no idea. Unfortunately this is a model I have little to do with Firko. The TS400 shares lots of common parts including the crankshaft and cases. So far as I know the other changes all revolved around the chassis and airbox etc so for mine the early and late motors are the same critter excepting the drop in primary compression. Big Lozza would no doubt know more of the actual workings but for mine I can't see how 1 is much better than the other. I have a parts book covering all models, if you like I'll send it down for you to look at and copy whatever sections you wish. Alphasport is good for the fiche but it's a deadset pain to do online compared to having the hard copy in your hands 

[facthunt]

The center port TS400s have the full circle cranks, 74 on I think. Also got a wider set of gear ratios.
Hope that helps

[firko]

Sorry Doc, I meant wiry one Facthunt has added to the great TM/TS crank debate!. Edgar agrees with you yet Vegas Bob and Super Hunky anong others go with the full circle crank theory. Apparently, according to folklore, it smoothed them right out and softened the transition from the bottom torque curve to mid range. Someone else told me about using DT400 Yamaha CDI ignition on the Suzuki but couldn't remember the details involved in the swap. I'll have a yarn with Jens and see what he comes up with. I had a ride on Mick Crams TS400 that Jens had fettled a few years ago and it was a well mannered puppy. Not quite as fast as my 440 Maico at the time but not far off either and it was surprisingly managable. Quite a difference from the jitterbug horrors of my initial TS400 experience back in 1971.

[Doc]

I have a centreport TS400 from '76 facthunt (had 2 actually) and neither had the full circle crank. The parts listings show the same for all years so the thlot plickins  I'd reckon Jens may have ran TS400 with lightened flywheel Firko. To me, apart from throwing a bucket load of coin at a PVL or similar nowdays, this would have been the most straight forward cure for the ignition in the day. I've seen the flywheel weights and such but I've only ever heard they partially cured the lightswitch advance issue. Nowdays I reckon you could near get anything you liked to fit if you really wanted. Swapping CDI's from other models or makes isn't uncommon but there isn't a lot of info out there for average racer on how to go about it or what to look for. I too wish there was but CDI's seem to have this shroud of secrecy about them and about how they function and on what they will function. It's 30+ year old technology now but I still can't get a grip on it   I don't believe the cranks are an issue until HP output is raised above 45ish ponies