Gearbox shimming.............

[Nitram]

Hi All,
I'm working on an old motorbike engine (OK, it's not a VMX bike.. .) and trying to sort out the gearbox (OK, it's Italian... .). The thing must have been put together by a bunch of drunks late on a Friday afternoon (OK it's a Guzzi....... ) because the shimming is not within a bulls roar of what it needs to be (OK, it's a late 60s bike........ ) and it's no wonder that the gears and selector forks are all mangled and blued (OK I paid too much for it....... )

So here's my question, apart from trolling through the parts book for part numbers and then writing to a million Guzzi spares places around the planet looking for NOS, where can I find gearbox shims ? I'm talking about hardened steel shims- the kind we find in gearboxes). I initially expected that they'd be available through bearing supply places, but all my inquiries so far have drawn a blank. Phil H. suggested I talk to someone who works on automatic gearboxes in cars, but again my inquiries so far have resulted in vacant stares and an unashamed suggestion that I'm wasting their precious time....... 

But surely I'm not the first person who has tried to fix a gearbox's dodgy shimming ? In truth, as a previous Montesa rider, I have gathered together a considerable collection of gearbox (and crankshaft shims) but none of them suit the Guzzi, which has a proliferation of 17mm, 19mm, 25mm and 35mm i.d. shims, in .010", .020" and .040" thicknesses. 

Any ideas/suggestions, apart from that I ditch the engine and replace it with a nice Yamazuki one  ? 

Cheers,

Nitram 

[Momus]

Nitram,  it's almost impossible to find the shims you want as a stock item and having them stamped is usually not viable for jobbing runs.

I get shims laser cut from steel sheet- usually the pickled and oiled mild steel that the cutters stock- that is then case hardened or if it is 4130 grade, nitrided. This approach will get you reasonable shims in the sheet guage thicknesses.

If you need precision shims you will have to get them surface ground.

For thin shims, commercial shim stock is available in many thicknesses from engineering suppliers. This stuff is not hardened though so cannot be used for high speed or load applications.

[Marc.com]

Any ideas/suggestions, apart from that I ditch the engine and replace it with a nice Yamazuki one  ? 

Cheers,

Nitram 

Sacrilege, besides any late 60s Guzzi is pretty collectable and besides not a lot else will fit. Guzzi and Ducati share some common shims, so you have to dry build the gearbox and work out what shims you need, you can probably get them in Aussie by finding a specialist who overhauls old Guzzi or Bevel Ducati  stuff. Not surprised automotive transmission store didn't have much for 40 year old motorcycle.

I would also do the drive shaft universals and at least check the rear wheel pinion backlash while you have it apart, oh and also change rear engine seal while you are in there.

http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?f=e&Shnew=&Model=&ModelName=All+Models&Cat=GEA&CatName=Gearbox&Sort=TitleDesc
 

[Lozza]

Any ideas/suggestions, apart from that I ditch the engine and replace it with a nice Yamazuki one  ? 

Cheers,

Nitram 

No need to ditch the engine just get a complete working engine(or gearbox) and look at what you have as 'good spares' ?  Stein Dinse only show 1 thing that looks like a shim

[Davey Crocket]

I don't know where you are but Statewide Bearings in Coopers Plains, Brisbane have heaps of different size shims, all hardened.....they are bigger than your average Brg shop. Ask for Drew [ex bike mechanic]...ph  07- 37174444. Hope this helps. Some shops aren't interested in the "pain in the arse" want a $5 shim but these guy's are good. Koyo, SKF and a few other companies make shitloads of shims for various applications. Good luck.

[matcho mick]

geezas,if Phil H said try automatic guys,that would tend to f\rule out ducati shim options  ,2nd guessing here,i'm thinking ladola?,(aint got no shaft drive worries ,Repco use to have handy pommy imperial shims (bitd),Coopers Plains sounds the go!,

[KTMaico]

If you are in Brisbane I would go see Tommy Newell at Don Newell Motorcycles in Deshon Street East Brisbane. He is next door to Serco and he is the Motor Guzzi Guru. Great guy and the Newell's are great motorcycle family.

Kevin

[GD66]

I think Nitram is a Sydney boy.

[Lozza]

Blue Mountains

[Nitram]

I will be replacing the rear gearbox seal, but no shaft to mess about with on this sweet little thing........ 





Guzzi 500 Nuovo Falcone.

I'm in the process of assembling the gearbox roughly with normal (non-hardened) washers and then I should have a close idea of exactly what I need to get by way of hardened shims. Getting the shimming right is quite a drawnout process, but therapeutic in a masochistic kind of way.  There's a surprising amout of info out there about these engines once you start digging around. Unfortunately its mostly in Italian, and surprisingly often in German. But that's all part of the adventure. 

Sounds like Statewide Bearings might be the go, 'though I'd be surprised if there isn't someone in Sydney or closer to hand: yep I'm in the blue Mountains. I'll give Statewide a ring in the morning.

Thanks for the replies.

Cheers,
Nitram

[Nitram]

Just for the assistance of anyone who is out there looking for shims (or am I the only person in VMX dumb enough to mess about with an engine that needs shims in the gearbox     ) .........................

None of the half dozen bearing supply places in Sydney and Brisbane that I rang sold shims, except for Statewide Bearings' Sydney shop at Smithfield, who quoted me between $90 and $110 per shim................!! And I've still got the emailed quote he sent me to prove it ! Surely he was dreaming......?  I had to strongly resist the urge to write back and inquire about the non-gold-plated ones...... 

Fortunately I was lucky enough to be given the number of Precision Shims in Melbourne who turned out to have exactly what I needed, rang me back twice to sort it out, charged me a pittance (well.......$5 per shim isn't nothing, but I'm now aware that gearbox shims are actually a pretty scarce commodity......), didn't gouge me too badly for postage, and were totally friendly and helpful in the process.  If you need shims, give them a call- 0397230199
Cheers,
Nitram

[huskibul]

    Thanks for putting that nitram !  was just about to start looking for shim's for a bsa crank -saved me by the sounds of it a heap of leg work - cheers   ps great looking motor/project you have there keep us updated would be plenty of people interested