What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?

[supersenior 50]

No objection Nathan, just a bemused observation.

[Simo63]

No objection Nathan, just a bemused observation.

And not adding any value to the conversation at all except to undermine those people discussing it.  Sounds like a familiar approach to me.

[supersenior 50]

Come in spinner, or should I say Simmo. And sorry if you are feelling undermined by a "bemused observation"

[Momus]

It's not really practical or realistic to operate with an "us-vs-them" attitude to the rule book. The rules are designed by the members for the members. If you think a rule is poorly worded or incorrectly written, whack in a submission to clarify it, or improve it.  After the commission has reviewed it, the mod will appear in 18 months time in the GCRs, MoMS or whatever it's called by then.
Also, the logbook situation that historic roadracing has adopted, while flawed, seems by and large to work ok, but would be impractical to implement in vmx (let alone the scores of pages of whinging it would generate on here !) It's not the job of a scrutineer to validate what is or isn't period-correct on race day. I believe in vmx, as in historic roadracing, the eligibility for a submitted bike should be determined by others racing in that class. That would soon weed out any dodgy bikes attempting to sneak through later-model components for an advantage, and would quickly result in a level playing field : being judged by your peers, in fact.

GD66, by the sound of it you were involved with preparing a successful submission on a rules question to MA.  What was it and what process did you use?

Cheers

[Ted]

VINTAGE GRIPES

I was at the Vintage Road Racing championships at Phillip Island in February and it was very well supported. I also went to the Bendigo MX tiles with Gary Hodge. I don't know the figures but the number of riders at the  meeting seemed to be at least equal to the Phillip Island meeting.

What I am saying is the huge number of riders at Bendigo were surely a representative cross section of the people most interested in that phase of the sport. On the Saturday night delegates from each state sat around a table and argued their points until they came up with a set of rules compatible with the majority.

These rules were then sent to the ACCA for ratification which I, in my innocence, presumed would only be a formality. But I was wrong. Those rules, which dirt bike riders assembled, have been played around with.

It's time there was a re-think somewhere. Any Vintage racing is just for fun, or it's supposed to be. It's an opportunity to bring out the old monster that's no longer competitive, with riders who are past the stage of believing it doesn't hurt when you fall off.

I hope that this vigorous branch of the sport is not ruined by rules that are not in the majority's interest.


Phil Young
Richmond NSW


You put a strong case Phil. Let's just hope someone at MA is listening. There is the hint of a new wind blowing which, if it builds in strength, could see the different segments of the sport controlled by those closely associated with it, with less input from those without a clue ( MA )  All it takes is for the various sub-committees to shoulder the responsibility. We live in hope.


Geoff Eldridge
Editor ADB

Comments from two very knowledgable dirt bike guys in September 1992.

Twenty three years later and absolutely nothing has changed.

[FourstrokeForever]

Also as I have already said I think John Orchard has got his answer.  The carby is not legal.

And just how is it that you think PJ Kiehin FS carbs are not legal Kevin? Are you ignoring all the facts that the carby was indeed available prior to 30/12/1984?
Wether it was available as a spare part for a 1985 model bike or not is a moot point. It was available for the public to purchase prior to the cut off date for pre85. It's not like anybody is trying to introduce the entire 1985 model bike, or even any major component of said bike. It's a carburetor. A consumable item in any bodies language. And it has been proven here that the PJ flatslide was on the RC500 in 1984. Get your facts straight mate.

[Hardo]

So am I allowed to use my Chad Reed bend bars on my 79 A5?

Chad wasn't alive in 79 ......   

[JohnnyO]

Also as I have already said I think John Orchard has got his answer.  The carby is not legal.

And just how is it that you think PJ Kiehin FS carbs are not legal Kevin? Are you ignoring all the facts that the carby was indeed available prior to 30/12/1984?
Wether it was available as a spare part for a 1985 model bike or not is a moot point. It was available for the public to purchase prior to the cut off date for pre85. It's not like anybody is trying to introduce the entire 1985 model bike, or even any major component of said bike. It's a carburetor. A consumable item in any bodies language. And it has been proven here that the PJ flatslide was on the RC500 in 1984. Get your facts straight mate.

So using that theory it's ok for me to buy an alloy swingarm for a 78 YZ250E and fit it to a 77 YZ250D for the pre 78 class

[Nathan S]

Also as I have already said I think John Orchard has got his answer.  The carby is not legal.

And just how is it that you think PJ Kiehin FS carbs are not legal Kevin? Are you ignoring all the facts that the carby was indeed available prior to 30/12/1984?
Wether it was available as a spare part for a 1985 model bike or not is a moot point. It was available for the public to purchase prior to the cut off date for pre85. It's not like anybody is trying to introduce the entire 1985 model bike, or even any major component of said bike. It's a carburetor. A consumable item in any bodies language. And it has been proven here that the PJ flatslide was on the RC500 in 1984. Get your facts straight mate.

No, on all your main points.

1. It has to have existed in 1984 in a form other than as a 1985 model part.
This has not been demonstrated.

2. It has not been proven that the 84 RC500 carby is a production PJ.
It has not been proven that the 84 RC500 is identical to a production PJ.

3. Carbies are not consumables. If they don't suck dirt, they last the life of the bike.

4. The rules specifically mention the need for "period" flatslides.

There are a couple of paths to take if you want to legally run a PJ on a Pre-85 bike, but it will take more than simply making assertions on OzVMX.

[GD66]

  GD66, by the sound of it you were involved with preparing a successful submission on a rules question to MA.  What was it and what process did you use?

You can submit it through your club, through your LCB or direct to MA in Melbourne. There is also a form for it near the front of the MoMS, or you can download it from the website www.ma.org.au >GCRs>Rules>Request a rule change.
I have had several go through in historic roadracing. Although MA butchered the wording, I got one through requiring P4 and later machines to use hydraulic fittings on their oil lines, rather than a twist of  wire round a rubber pipe, or a buggered jubilee clip. That was inspired by dragging my bike and sorry arse from Perth to the historic nationals and Phillip Island Classic only to have sidecars drop a lap and a half of oil on the racing line on the Friday morning, so we raced all weekend on cement dust, very disconcerting.
Another one was rejecting the otherwise-compulsory use of the appalling Arial Round number font on historic machines, reasoning that period font was not only clearer to  read but more in keeping with period machinery. The scrutineers tried to force all competitors to use Arial Round numbers at a nationals in Queensland a few years back by supplying numbers to all. They ran out after about 12 bikes, and I whacked my submission in after that.
 I have one in at the moment, seeking to withdraw the farcical rule that says roadrace sidecar passengers are not required to wear gloves. A little hard to enforce the rule about permitting only closed footwear in the pits, when passengers are whizzing round at over 200 km/h with bare hands, let alone what happens when they unload. The shabby excuses I have been given to keep the rule in are woeful.
It is not without some experience that these alterations have been successful, I have been going to bike meetings since 1962, been an official since 1968, and am level 3 clerk and steward for roadracing, level 2 clerk and steward for mx, and a venue inspector, as well as doing commentary since 1970, plus 26 years racing as well. Not that any of that is required to make a rule submission. But they are OUR rules, so WE have to tidy them up if required. Not just sit back and say MA are fcuked.
Get stuck in, mate !

[Simo63]

Come in spinner, or should I say Simmo. And sorry if you are feelling undermined by a "bemused observation"

Undermined?? How could I be feeling (or is that feelling?) undermined??  You are mistaking me for someone else as I've not said anything nor had any involvement with this conversation prior to that post?

[Momus]

Thanks for that GD66 (and for other PM'd info I received).

I am gathering information.

There is a dog half asleep here too     given the plenty of times flat slide fitted CR500's have run at national level.

Cheers
 

[Ted]

So am I allowed to use my Chad Reed bend bars on my 79 A5?

Chad wasn't alive in 79 ......   

Only if you've got a '77 model with Windham RM bend Pro Tapers

[Ted]

Thanks for that GD66 (and for other PM'd info I received).

I am gathering information.

There is a dog half asleep here too     given the plenty of times flat slide fitted CR500's have run at national level.

Cheers

Don't hold any faith in what has run at previous Nats as being gospel or setting a precedent. Especially after hearing a certain eligibility scrutineer telling a contestant " I'll let you ride it but if anybody protests I will disqualify you "

The only information you need to gather is either a dated sales receipt or a dated picture.

[Nathan S]

....

There is a dog half asleep here too     given the plenty of times flat slide fitted CR500's have run at national level.
....

You've gotta let that one go. Like everyone keeps saying: It's worth much, much less than you seem to think it is worth.