Noise Emissions

[DJRacing]

Please forgive me if I'm wrong or talking through a hole in my head as I dont live over there, so I dont know all the ins and outs of your system. But since its your own governing body who is going to do this cant there be a committee of VMX members throughout Oz (collectively) put forward ideas to MA that are more vmx friendly. After all you are the members of MA and they collect your money like everyone elses so they should be working for you or at least trying to work with you. I hate to say it but I surpose we have to move with the times, but at least if a proposal is put forward that is more agreeable to both parties is that a step in the right direction? And if you do this soon isnt it showing your governing body that you are trying to take steps (albeit small ones) but isnt it better to be pro-active and maybe get it written in the rule book by vmxers(more user friendly) than have it written in there by someone who doesnt know anything about old bikes.

Even if it meant having to hire the sound equipment and take readings from the perimeter of the track at a vmx meeting and then doing the same at a modern meeting.(these readings could be quiet different) and if they are maybe vmx could have amendments to the rules. Its always better to get in first than try and change rules once they are made.
But hey as I said I dont know the ins and outs of how things work over there and I am definitely not trying to tell you guys what to do(far from it) but as we all know if you sit back and do nothing then what ever happens will happen.

I'm with you Freaky but the way I see it is get in first and try to limit the damage before the damage is done and I do believe that the noise thing is going to be more difficult for us (vmxers) because nothing was ever considered or made for noise control. Some bikes brand new didnt even have silencers.

But anyway a bit of food for thought from a vmxer across the ditch.
Will you at least offer me a blindfold before letting rip

[GMC]

uniform > why why should my local track in SA  15 km from anywhere have to have the same levels as your ? thats bullshit, and you cant convince me other wise

While it may not matter at your track, I can't see the point in having 10 different mufflers to swap around to ride at 10 different tracks just so you can have the loudest bike possible.
Do you think having a loud bike is going to help you win?

[pokey]

What ever you do someone will still be offended by it. Even  the most logical solution will still find critics.


 Barleigh  ranch at Newcastle was  mentioned as a site for a motorsport complex  a few years back  adjacent to the existing bike track. That track is in the middle of a forest with a few  farmlets  surrounding  and miles from any township. Did  it go ahead? Nope.

 Face it guys , The environmental concerns  have taken hold and wont go away. People have irrational fears and  real fears that  we the target group cannot  grasp but never the less they do be real to them  and we  need to accept this as fact. Arguing the point wont make it go away.

Just because  someone else may create more noise is no reason we shouldnt do what we can to minimise the impact we are having.
 If VMXers are  seen as environmentally aware  this can go a long way to  getting the Greenies on our side. Tree planting  is one idea and there are  heaps more but it will take  money  as thats what its all about. who can sway the lobby groups the most to get thier own way.
 Sadly we dont have available to us the readies to do this so we lose unless we can think smart. Plant a tree and quiet your bike  down  and self regulation at a club level  will show the authorities we are concerned  and we will keep what we have for a little longer .

[Freakshow]

, I can't see the point in having 10 different mufflers to swap around to ride at 10 different tracks just so you can have the loudest bike possible.
Do you think having a loud bike is going to help you win?

winning whats that ?  being screwed over by pipe builders peddling quieter mufflers ? might be good for you geoff but no one else.  What idiot would need 10 mufflers anyway?  i have one muffler on my bikes and there they stay.  if i feel the need to compete interstate i will make the call if i need to attend to my resonators/silencers, that in noway needs me to have 10 mufflers - what a stupid comment.

None of my bikes go over 100db currently GCR rate noise at 98-100 so im good dude, i dont have loud bikes, but what i do have is a note that gives me a stiffy evey time i turn them over.

 i have a leo vance pipe on my road bike that sounds like an F1 but its still road and track legal.  What i do have a problem with is these peanuts pushing our bikes down to 96 db next year with all the other bikes,  explain to me in english how a 33 year old bike is going to be as quiet as a modern that can fit up a silencer it came without of the showroom that is already under 98 ?   What logic would try to enfoce that mental ness ?     

On my flattracker i have Steve Eklands 74 National Amatuer short track pipe, it was also onboard when he won the Short track Nationals in Santa fe, third at the nationals at the Astrodome, and was a part of his Grand National AMA Rookie of the year award Run in 76, and Pro title short track wins throughout 76/77, someone would have to blow me pretty hard to make me even look at messing around with that pipe, i think we call it "ptena" here - its under 100db, but wouldnt get to 96 or less (which will come in another year after this) unless you killed off any shape this thing holds and had a silencer past the 25mm rear rule you wouldnt make the new limits coming. 

These bikes are called 'classics 'for a reason.    Evolution stuff can get away with silencers that are modified to control niose down to these minute levels but at plus or minus 2db someone else gets to choose if i ride, WTF .

The rules specify codes right down to lenghth in mm' of foot pegs in some cases like speedway, so it would be a brave person who would say it is too hard to enforce a class based or code based DB limit.   Im sure if it meant numbers on the start line im sure i could convience my club to allow us to run under "record attempt" excemption.   Trying to break our lap own lap records perhaps, there are ways around it but for the greater good of the classic sport it can only contiue to ride the wave, if fundimentally sensible criteria are set.  There is nothing at all stopping MA adding a clause into the rule book specifying a threshold on classic bikes at 100DB or even 98db for that matter, as it is now in the rules, but a slide down to 96db and beyond is suicide.   They will all be parked in a garage, or youll all have to start making farmer mate freinds and take up classic trail riding :O)

[Freakshow]

Face it guys , The environmental concerns  have taken hold and wont go away.
we shouldnt do what we can to minimise the impact we are having.
Tree planting  is one idea and there are  heaps more but it will take  money  as thats what its all about. who can sway the lobby groups the most to get thier own way.
 Sadly we dont have available to us the readies to do this so we lose unless we can think smart. Plant a tree and quiet your bike  down  and self regulation at a club level  will show the authorities we are concerned  and we will keep what we have for a little longer .

we have have only ever had one complaint at our club in 25 years, and our track is smack bang in the middle of a major town.   that 1 city slicker that moved in behind the track a few years back has since moved on but they closed the track down for 6 months whle we attended to there concerns.   

The track is set in over 2 acres of council land, the track is in the centre and now has scrub 40 mtres deep surrounding all sides, i have a property on the lower side of the track about 600 m away and if they are running an event we can hardly hear it, the sound absorbtion of native trees and scrubs is amazing, even trees for life or who ever they are love it cause they keep planting more trees and doing all the weeding in there.  It has animals and all sort living in the native trees and bushes everyone is happy.

The track also runs ride days so the community /un licenced riders can come and try, on these days and race day we have a demonstration class of Pee wees, last round we had over 13 kids under 9 riding there pee wees and waving to the crowd, the community comes out in force to watch these kids ride around, mums , dads , grand parents, most people comment on how good it is to see these kids riding in the fresh air , and how it reminds them of the old days, we now have a very strong commitment from the council, community and the local paper who back us right up and have endorsed the clubs efforts and even promoted events asking for more to be scheduled.   BY having the support of the locals, and by utilsing a natural barrier around the track we dont seem to have a niose problem.    Which is why we dont need someone to regulate it for us, or dictate how we run our events.

our race/ride days are always on sundays ? go figure and they let us run before 10 am, but being good citizens the first class of the day is always the Demo PW's to ease the noise levels up, then 85, then 125 etc etc, the last ride of the day is alway the PW final demo as well so we can fit all the louder classes in during they day, and then the kids can bang around till it gets dark if they like as you cant even hear the pws, running.

What im trying to say here is simple, Noisey bikes should be controlled and managed at a club level, its up to your club to control its riders, but its not up to you to inforce your poor standards on other clubs thereby limiting and controlling there chioces just because your act isnt together,  we dont need a rule enforced just because your club cant mange its track.    I dont want to be forced to make changes to my bikes and my lifstyle chioces because of other piss poor efforts. IF i choose to ride at your evet or your clubs track i expect to meet those supp. regs and when you get a permit from MA for your event they can enforce a DB limit on your track right there.

 It does not need to be shoved down the throat of everyone, just becuase its easyier to stick it to everyone.

[gorby]

One of our speedway tracks is located on the edge of a small town and has embankments and trees around it.
The noise complaints don't come from the local residents,but from about 5 kms away.
The noise seems to go over the shielding and come down over a distance,if that makes sense.

I have witnessed this happening,and it is worse on still nights.

In my opinion,we will just have to grin and bear it as well as get smarter in dealing with the councils etc.

One thing is for sure,this issue is only going to get harder to deal with,and MA is on the right track in starting to do something before the so called authorities make up some knee jerk rules eg track closures
and not issuing permits.

[Freakshow]

well thats why you need to start lobbying your local politician.  kill it off in its tracks higher up the food chain.    Beurocrates makes things happen which ever why get the votes or how hard they get told to do from above.   IM not saying dont pull down the limits im just saying they need to be sensible for certain racing eras.

When we have a city stadium speedway in adelaide they fit lukey style boxes and it seems to dull the residents.  the sound isnt trackside but as you say km away as a low hum.  It seems to as you say lift off the roof structures up and resonate in a conical style wave but then again i can hear a plane at 10,000 feet when they fly over head.

There is a big diffferance to noticable and Annoying, but i still think it needs work before it is blanket cast. 

[husky61]

Gorby

The phenomonon you speak of is a result of noise travelling in a parabolic fashion .

Sound is a wave motion which occurs when a sound source sets the nearest particals of air into motion.The movement gradually spreads to air particals further away from the sound source.
The sound can propagate in the air at speeds greater than 340 metres/sec.In liquids such as water and some solids the propagation velocity can be greater with water exceeding 1500m/s and some metals exceeding 5000m/s.
You may be familiar with the term sound wave. Sound really does travel in a wave fashion . The frequency of the sound pattern or sound power level will determine the low points at which the sound may land(for the what of better term).Example: Sound exists over a very wide frequency range. Audible sound for young people lies between 20hertz and 20000 hertz. at low frequencies the air particals vibrate slowly producing bass tones and high frequencies the air particals vibrate quickly giving soprano tones.
 High frequency sound is a very busy and rapid wave where a low frequency sound is lazy relaxed wave .The human ear can be  sensative to both high and low frequencies however there are frequency ranges that are particularly annoying.
So imagine if your place is two kilometers away and you are at , say the bottom of one of the sound waves this explains the auditable nature at your location.The sound is basically landing at your place.
Atmospheric conditions play a major part in the projection of sound and will vary the sound end result dramatically.

i hope this helps

Regards

Rob

[Tim754]

No Shit!:       Well it is what your thinking too isn't it!!!!!!  thanks Husky  Cheers Tim.

[Freakshow]

so can we tune our bike to be in the frequnecny that old people cant hear ? but yet the local dogs howl.  like some noise cancelling device ?     there could be money in this and still race ya bike )

[husky61]

Freakshow

I'm not sure about tuning a bike to achieve the required sound pressure or as expressed in dBa sound power level , but a very efficient(but very unattractive) silencer would certainly achieve the required acoustic reduction with little reduction in engine performance.
Realistically if the new requirements are as stated the use of efficient silencers will be the only method of meeting the required operating noise levels.

There are devices available that cancel out certain frequencies (white noise generators) however i believe this type of device is not very effective in an uncontrolled outdoor environment.

[magoo]

Onya Rob, that forked 'em.

[Lozza]

However your bike just has to pass the noise test,who gives a rats arse about what happens 2km away
The issue has been sorted in karts, just a combination of hole size and packing

[Yamaboy]

Noise testing isn't a new thing in vintage racing. They noise tested competitors at the 98 Nepean Dirt Track Nats and I remember being tested at Ravenswood a few years ago. It's no good whingeing about it. It's the law and that's it. Just get over it and make your bikes legal. Believe me, it's not that hard.

[husky61]

There a two particular bodies which would give a shit about a noise complaint two kilometres from the track, particularly if it is consistant for various periods of time and the noise complaint exceeds the relevant requirements of the Australian standard  AS 1055. parts 1 ,2 & 3 and various other acoustical standards / guidelines.
One is the initial place of complaint. The local council
Two is the EPA.
The first is not so bad , however if the second group see fit to get on the job , then you have a significant issue that generally requires a great deal of time and expertise to deal with, which generally means a whole lot on money.
You must also consider that should all the bikes at an event meet the pre determine criteria for noise output that does not get us off the hook as far as external noise complaints are concerned

So as advised by many others it is pertinent to deal with the issue rather than ignore it.