So…..Why are you NOT racing???

[William Doe]

The track argument doesn't wash with me  an obstacle is an obstacle , as long as you can ride over it then what's the problem. It MX weather its vintage or modern your racing the track and the others in the race . Stutters and huge drop offs that cant be ridden over are the only two obstacles I consider out of place for vintage bikes.

If its a double and a bloke regardless of age can clear it then that's his advantage ITS RACING .
I love natural flowing TT style tracks where I can hook top gear and slide the arse out also tight rutted corners as I can ride ruts well . I don't like big jumps but will race what's put in front of me.

We are having this argument with our modern club riders ATM, if the tracks not super smooth with manicured jump faces and no ruts apparently its shit . What they want really suits the vintage bikes but its a facility used 98% by modern rider on modern bikes FFS .

I tell em all "its not the track Princess , its YOU , harden the fork up "

Over 40 yr and under 40 yrs is a good split with a class for over 60s too . I don't care if the kids got any affinity with the bike or not but if he rides like a forkwit and takes me out due to stupidity then I will give him a dig in the pits 

 

[FourstrokeForever]

You're absolutely right Bill when you say you have to ride the obstacles. Just because there's a huge double in front of you doesn't mean you have to take it on.

The fact of the matter is though, young men will always want to fly. I know I did. But that was on a then modern '84 CR and I was young, fit and fearless....I bounced a lot better then too. Thing is, MX is a young mans sport, always has been, always will be. They no doubt have the numbers on VMX when it comes to race licenses and club membership so most of the current tracks are built to cater for the next world champion. And rightly so I say.

In a perfect world, there would be natural terrain tracks everywhere, some with the odd man made obstacle here and there, for us lot who enjoy riding old bikes as they were meant to ridden.....FLAT OUT 

Connondale up in QLD is a perfect example of a track that suits the old bikes but yet still manages to keep the long travel and linkage brigade very happy as well.
Narrogin in WA is absolute heaven....yep, it has jumps, lots of them too, but you have the choice of flying over them or keeping the bike as close to the ground as you like without risking someone flying over your head while you roll over a double jump. It's a nice, fast flowing track that caters for pre75 only so there are no real deep ruts that sweep your feet off the pegs. I hope they (WAVMX) decide to allow pre78 for a national event.....the place is awesome.

[KTM47]

Right we are on tracks now.

Supercross obstacles on MX tracks is nothing new.  In 1980 there was a double jump in the main straight at Tivoli and quad jumps beside the dam.  As the eighties went on and SX gained more MX numbers dropped off.

The riders just stopped racing.  They didn't say why they just stopped.  In Queensland the numbers only started to come back when in 1989 we banned SX obstacles in MX.  Riders numbers came back in the 90s and increased each year until the early 2000s.

Supercross obstacles have been creeping back into MX for a number of year's now.  Of course they aren't permitted under the current track guidelines but track inspectors have found way to approve them.

How does this relate to VMX?

Simple because the tracks most clubs use are also modern tracks the same obstacles are there.  Have a good look at the track your club uses.  Remember riders may not tell you they don't like a track, they just won't turn up.

Even my two favourite tracks in Queensland would be better (for VMX) without some of the "Modern" obstacles.  At the moment the good bits out way the bad.  The reality is we are getting older, while we could jump things even ten years ago, now you hesitate.  As Gally would say at a school if you aren't confident don't try it.

Brian there is no way I am interested in riding or racing a mini-bike.  I didn't ride them when I was young (they weren't around) and I'm not interested now.  They are bikes designed for kids and that's who should be riding them.  I even mentioned this to Rick Doughty one time and he said it would be great to see kids helping dad to restore a mini-bike.

Kevin

[foxy999]

that's showing your age kev   

[asasin]

A field full of teenagers riding our bikes !!! may as well go play slotcars. when I cant race anymore they are going to the scrap heap rather than play pit dad to a young fella

[Slakewell]

Tracks in NSW have speed limits and to achieve this they must add more obstacles and more corners. Yes it stupid IMO but thats how it is. Again these rules are because mini bike parents fear that speed will hurt there kid and mini bike parents control just about all clubs.
This again is why you wont see me at my local track. Its a second gear jump fest.   

[Rookie#1]

A field full of teenagers riding our bikes !!! may as well go play slotcars. when I cant race anymore they are going to the scrap heap rather than play pit dad to a young fella

Fantastic attitude, that's the spirit  almost all other sports, those who can no longer participate often choose to spend their time giving back to something that gave them so much joy, showing younger people the way and teaching them things they "think" they already know. If you're above post is a truthful reflection of your feelings I'm glad you're not a member of my club. 

Cheers, Brendan

[asasin]

That the problem with the younger generations ( and I was the same when I was young)you want to be given everything insted of A: earning it and B; finding out your self. C : creating your own thing
 I have done the passing on thing already pit dad buls*#@T  but if you don't learn from your own experience and mistakes you cannot grow.
 Sometimes things have to die out in order for new things to replace them.

[Nathan S]

The ACTMCC turned their good club track into a jumpfest a few years ago. Apart from losing their track maintenance guy (an OzVMX member) they also went from nearly full grids of O35s and nearly full grids of O45s, to a 2/3rds full grid of combined O35, O45s and women.
The other classes also suffered, although less dramatically.

The track has progressively be tamed back down since then.

Nobody likes racing on obstacles that make them feel like incompetent morons, but the over-30 year old riders like it less than most.

[Viper666]

Tracks in NSW have speed limits and to achieve this they must add more obstacles and more corners. Yes it stupid IMO but thats how it is. Again these rules are because mini bike parents fear that speed will hurt there kid and mini bike parents control just about all clubs.

Yes & No

(Sorry if this has been covered haven't read the entire thread.)

While the parents may very well influence the track layout/design it is MA's "Track Guidelines" (There's an Oxymoron, actually just morons) that stipulates that no track shall have an AVERAGE speed of more than 55kph & no section of the track where a bike can reach a speed of over 100kph and this is measure against a PRO rider.

Monza is 54.86 kph average which means I would average about 44kph (If on song)

This is why more technically track are appearing & why most jump are "2nd gear" types as you will flat land if you over jump meaing they have to wash off speed before hand. The beauty of us "old" riders is we know how to land on the back wheels, kids don't.

I have had this argument with track inspector & other officials alike (I'm a level 3) & can't get it through to them that speed is actually safer than heaps of technical crap that bunches the riders up.

On that though I am in agreeance with the man formally known as TM Bill that you ride to YOUR ability & everyone else has to cover the same track as you. Whereas I love jumps, especially step ups, I hate off camber corners, mud, ruts, stutters etc. but I still ride the tracks (Used to, hope to again) as it is equal for all. And don't get me started on the prima donnas that are supposed to be our current bunch of so called motox riders. One rut, one puddle, one breaking bump & the whinging starts, and this is for just practice days.

7.3.4 Speed
The track must not contain any high-speed sections (i.e. where speeds exceed 100kph).
Average Speed: The maximum average speed for a lap of the track is to be no greater than
55kph.
The formula to work out the average track speed is:
Average Speed (kph) = Distance (metres) x 3.6
LapTime (secs)
Note that the lap time used is to be one achieved by an experienced “Pro” grade rider.

[Rookie#1]

That the problem with the younger generations.....

Nothing thought out, researched or constructive has ever followed a sweeping generalization like that so I'll give it no merit at all.

[KTM47]

Tracks in NSW have speed limits and to achieve this they must add more obstacles and more corners. Yes it stupid IMO but thats how it is. Again these rules are because mini bike parents fear that speed will hurt there kid and mini bike parents control just about all clubs.
This again is why you wont see me at my local track. Its a second gear jump fest.

Slakewell

The average speed rule is not a NSW rule only it is in the MA Track Guidelines.  55 KPH is the average speed.  The number comes from the FIM MX track standards.  It is being used to slow track down more than they have to be.  The World MX Championship tracks comply to that average speed.  The influence of SX and Freestyle is why we are getting more jumps.

[asasin]

That the problem with the younger generations.....

Nothing thought out, researched or constructive has ever followed a sweeping generalization like that so I'll give it no merit at all.

So you wont take any advice anyway as, like you said, you might just actually know it all

[KTM47]

The ACTMCC turned their good club track into a jumpfest a few years ago. Apart from losing their track maintenance guy (an OzVMX member) they also went from nearly full grids of O35s and nearly full grids of O45s, to a 2/3rds full grid of combined O35, O45s and women.
The other classes also suffered, although less dramatically.

The track has progressively be tamed back down since then.

Nobody likes racing on obstacles that make them feel like incompetent morons, but the over-30 year old riders like it less than most.

I agree with Nathan again.   What's happening!!!!!

[asasin]

I also agree with Nathan , tracks can make all the difference to rider enjoyment , which also varies with age group