Age classes do we need all of them

[Iain Cameron]

Kim, I take your point but a 30 year old now riding a 25 year old bike that's 1989 model so that makes it irrelevant for pre 78 even  . Look honestly at the prices of second hand bikes and tell me that a pre 75 vmx bike is cheaper than a 10 year old modern bike . As for the bikes we started with mine was a absolute shitter and I could not wait to save enough to get myself a competitive bike a at the time Modern bike . Just out of curiosity Kim how old are you ( sorry quest key is US) and what bike did you first race . Mine was a Scrambler horse (Honda 50cc copy ) It made me find so many lawns to mow to raise enough money as a 14 y\o to buy a proper bike don't laugh a 74 dt125 that was then stripped for mx .  Iain

[KTM47]

Do we need all the age groups?  Probably not, but if any are going to be combined it has the be the younger ages but is it fair to compare a 29 year old to a 39 year old.

I turned 60 this year and I know I am not competitive even against a 50 year old or 55.

Leave it the way it is just lower the number to constitute a class why are sidecars and women's class 6 to constitute a class and I think the Aust Classic DT Champs has 6 to constitute a class for Pre 60 and 65.

Also the number of starters for a race is dictated by the number of start gates and track width.  1 to 30 gates the track minimum of six metres wide over 30 to 40 gates minimum of 7 metres wide.  This is the MA Track Standard for Motocross tracks, there isn't a separate standard for Classic MX Tracks. 

[35elsinore]

Iain, I guess we all have a different story as to why we ride or like different bikes eg I ride 74 Hondas 125 and 250 of which I was only 3 when they hit the showroom floor. I was never involved in motocross until my first meeting which was the Nationals at Coffs Harbour in my mid 30's on the said bikes. Ive never road modern motocross and have no interest to.

With the interest in Hondas and older things is how my interest in classic motocross come about, so what Im trying to say is that younger people can have an interest in bikes that they had no association with in the day.

If its all about riding with people your own age then bike capacity seems a bit of a trophy grab, the fast riders will win on any capacity bike. So if rider numbers aren't there to support age and capacity classes, then age all powers seem a logical choice to me.

[albrid-3]

may be if we just keep the age classes simple,  for the over 50`s or over 60`s only, nothing under that.

[supersenior 50]

But the numbers ARE there in the older age groups. In the last two Nats the three older age groups ( in each separate capacity),often  outnumbered sidecar's,Pre78 125, Pre70 250. Do we drop those classes as unworthy of a championship status?
Example   2013 there were more Superseniors than all 16-39 and 30-39 combined. Superseniors equalled the all-ages Pre70 class
50-59 250 outnumbered Pre75 4Stroke, Pre60, Pre65 250 & 263+, Pre70,250, Pre78 125,
60+ were only a couple behind the above and 40-49 not far behind either.
2012 there were 28 riders in the 250 50-59 age race, and 16 in 263+
        there were 19   "              263+    60+  "
            "      "    19   "                "        40-49      "
By the anti age/ capacity advocates logic re "worthiness" of championship status in those catagories, and cost, we should be culling out classes which have say less than age/capacity entries.

                                                                  I don't think so
 As has been suggested in several previous posts perhaps dropping age racing for sub 40 is a logical approach. the young guys can shine in the open classes and if they stay supporting vintage racing will graduate into the age racing.
I am often told by dads and older sponsors "Harold races Vintage because he just loves riding the old bikes". I'm sure this is true in some instances, but how many slow young riders do you see entered because they just "love riding old bikes"
We like seeing hot riders young or old trotting their stuff, but the strenghth is in the continued participation of older riders.
The young guns will get older and slower so they can then join in the age racing.
          Settle Ted, you know where I'm coming from.

[KTM47]

The solution is simple.  Three age groups with Super Senior run as an Unlimited race separate.

16 to 49 (entries to constitute a Championship class 10)

50 to 59 (entries to constitute a Championship class 10) this is usually the larger group

60 and over (entries to constitute a Championship class 6)

For Motocross run each capacity as two race groups

16 to 49

and 50 and over, like is was at Toowoomba

Most Championship meeting Promoters will have sponsorship to cover each age group.

Run the class even if the entries aren't there.  The numbers will grow if they are run.  Any hint that a class won't be run does result in riders not entering because "the class will be dropped".  I know it sound stupid but that is exactly what happens.

Be positive any negativity means riders don't enter.

[supersenior 50]

Kev, I totally agree with your last paragraph. We proved that in 2012 when we guaranteed Pre60 a start. After some years of no Pre 60 class we had enough to qualify as a championship, and the class increasd 50% in 2012. I see Pt Augusta has a championsip level for Pre60. Three guys in our club built/bought bikes as a result.Run it and they will come.

[pancho]

Kev, I totally agree with your last paragraph. We proved that in 2012 when we guaranteed Pre60 a start. After some years of no Pre 60 class we had enough to qualify as a championship, and the class increasd 50% in 2012. I see Pt Augusta has a championsip level for Pre60. Three guys in our club built/bought bikes as a result.Run it and they will come.

 Right on Col!

[supersenior 50]

Kev, I can see the average 48yo being thrilled to being lumped in with the teenagers. The 40-49 should not be cannon fodder so the kids can get a medal. If the young riders can win a medal in Open class it would have some meaning
Why, when (using 2012 again) there were 12 riders in 40-49 125cc  ( 3 under 30, 3 in 30-39)
    "                     "                       "      "   16    "            "    250 cc (2 under 30,  6        "
    "                     "                       "      "   19    "            "    263+    (0 under 30, 3        "    )
I know statistics are boring, but do tell the story.

[HeavenVMX]

Maybe the solution is
16-39 age race is all powers
40-49 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
50-59 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
60-69 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
70yo+ race is all powers

This would offer everyone equal number of races. If it was worded that way in the MOMS it would make it easier for promoting clubs to schedule and entrants to know exactly what was what.

[VMX247]

Maybe the solution is
16-39 age race is all powers
40-49 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
50-59 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
60-69 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
70yo+ race is all powers

This would offer everyone equal number of races. If it was worded that way in the MOMS it would make it easier for promoting clubs to schedule and entrants to know exactly what was what.

Bonza idea.with a rise to 45 age cut off.
This may need ajusting after a few years.

[KTM47]

An interesting fact.  The sup-regs for the Aust Classic DT Champs have the age groups clearly stated as capacities classes.  They also state the minimum entry number to constitute a class for Pre 60 and Pre 65 is 6 riders.  Interesting!!!!!

[Iain Cameron]

Maybe the solution is
16-39 age race is all powers
40-49 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
50-59 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
60-69 age races have seperate 125, 250 & >263
70yo+ race is all powers

This would offer everyone equal number of races. If it was worded that way in the MOMS it would make it easier for promoting clubs to schedule and entrants to know exactly what was what.

Would this be ok to the over 70+ crowd or are they missing out on three rides .
but we are getting there .
35Elsinore I take you point .
Iain

Bonza idea.with a rise to 45 age cut off.
This may need ajusting after a few years.

[supersenior 50]

Kev, 6 riders min in Pre60 and Pre65 for championship statis has been in for a few years. Nothing new there.

[supersenior 50]

Why now go to 60-69, when 60+ works fine. 60-69 was put in MOMs a few years ago as a typo then corrected the following year.
16-39, a 23 year gap?
How about this scenario. All ages are eligible for an all in say Pre75 250cc championship and may the best rider win. Trophies and MA medal 1st, 2nd and third. Probably won by a young rider but that's ok as he's beaten  everyone that lined up.
           Age brackets 16-29,30-39,40-49, 50-59, and 60+ in a separate set of races giving all a second race opportunity.
          We have a 40 gate grid, and a busy programn so need to combine some classes. Also give the spectators better value.
          So lets combine 16-29, 30-39, and 40-49 on the track but pointed separately
          Some may not have the numbers to make the championship requirement, but it seems to be agreed that anything less than 10 makes it a valueless medal. 
          Example; 2  16-29, 6  30-39,  16  40-49, a field of 24 riders
          16-29, winner gets a trophy (not his fault only one other showed up) )  No medals, but they will have medalled in the
          30-39  1st and 2nd get trophies (they have beaten 4 others)             ) Open if good enough to beat the oldies.
          40-49    !st, 2nd and 3rd trophies plus MA medals. After all they have beaten a good number of their peers and met the criterior per GCRs.
                               Good fields, looks good for the spectators, gets through the programn, and anyone good enough to beat their peers (or older) gets suitably rewarded.
                  Hang on, this sounds familiar.
                  O course--it's straight out of the last couple of programns