Race number and class letter sizes

[HeavenVMX]

In 1976/77 a front sprocket cover was actually a requirement on all bikes it was not until the early '80s that the sprocket covers were deleted but only if the sprocket is less than 30mm from the swingarm pivot or words to that effect and that is still the rule today except for VMX were all eras require them.

[FourstrokeForever]

And here we go again. Another over complicated rule to confuse the punters......

It's hard enough to fit 2 decent size numbers on our oval number plates, let alone 3.

And there lies the problem.

Rules are introduced that we're not applicable back in the day, when these bikes were new.

Front and rear sprocket covers are in vogue these days. If you stuck your fingers in the sprocket back then it was called bad luck mate. Now you become an instant victim.

Too many rules.

Now now Ted, you know the rule about the era letters is so that you or I, or anyone else for that matter doesn't front up to the pre 65 or pre 75 grid on our pre 85 bikes........'cause no one would notice that would they

Exactly right PCMAX....if the era letter wasn't in place or big enough to read, everyone would ride whatever they felt like riding in any class. It's too easy to make a 1984 CR250RE look like a 1974 CR250M......

[KTM47]

And here we go again. Another over complicated rule to confuse the punters......

It's hard enough to fit 2 decent size numbers on our oval number plates, let alone 3.

Dave, just do your best to make the numbers as big as you can to make them all fit on. 090 (Brad) on this forum has his numbers fitting very good so it can be done.

The thing I don't understand is why MA continue down the path of ridiculous rules for VMX bikes.  In this case, has anyone seen the size of number backgrounds and numbers on modern enduro bikes......surely they need bigger number boards mounted, 200 mm from line of swingarm and 200mm behind rider foot peg........

And there lies the problem.

Rules are introduced that we're not applicable back in the day, when these bikes were new.

Front and rear sprocket covers are in vogue these days. If you stuck your fingers in the sprocket back then it was called bad luck mate. Now you become an instant victim.

Too many rules.

If the lawyers and the courts would do everything the same as they did in the 70s etc the rules could be the same as back then, but in the real World that is not the case.  You can fit a three digit number and the class letter on number plates, you just have to make the numbers to suit.  Or take your plates to a graphic guy and get them to do them.  I use Sixty-Nine Designs, they can do anything you want.  If you don't want to pay to get the numbers done.  Just make your own number (and letter) templates and make your numbers using contact.  That was what I did when I first started racing in 1972.

Just for the record bikes with front sprockets further away from the frame than 30 mm have always had to have front sprocket covers.  Most bikes had them fitted standard.

There isn't too many rules.  If everyone just enforced the ones we have got there would be less of a problem.  Because some rules are ignored because (it's just a Club Day), we have the problem of riders being let get away with things and then eventually being told they have to change.

Kevin

[Nathan S]

And here we go again. Another over complicated rule to confuse the punters......

It's hard enough to fit 2 decent size numbers on our oval number plates, let alone 3.

And there lies the problem.

Rules are introduced that we're not applicable back in the day, when these bikes were new.

Front and rear sprocket covers are in vogue these days. If you stuck your fingers in the sprocket back then it was called bad luck mate. Now you become an instant victim.

Too many rules.

Now now Ted, you know the rule about the era letters is so that you or I, or anyone else for that matter doesn't front up to the pre 65 or pre 75 grid on our pre 85 bikes........'cause no one would notice that would they

Exactly right PCMAX....if the era letter wasn't in place or big enough to read, everyone would ride whatever they felt like riding in any class. It's too easy to make a 1984 CR250RE look like a 1974 CR250M......

I don't think that confusing 74 and 84 models is a problem. But there are plenty of times when it would require a trained eye to pick between pre-70 and pre-75 bikes, or between pre-85 and an early pre-90 bike.

To be honest, I'm not sure why the rule exists. There is clearly some merit in having a simple era-identifier on all bikes, but when it's a 50mm tall letter on every number plate, it suggests that it is for the lap scorers... I've never been able to work out why the lap scorers need to know what era the bike is, mid-race.
I've certainly never seen anyone bother to record the era-letter when they're lap scoring...

[loosecannon]

I will just have to make the 3 numbers as big as possible on the 79 model plates... via a sign place ( which is tiny number plate next to the 96 cr next to it in the shed)... you can't do anymore than that

If there was an issue with the era of the bike, couldn't that be address either before or after the race?

[Nathan S]

If there was an issue with the era of the bike, couldn't that be address either before or after the race?

Yes, but the reason for an identifier is to keep the continuity between scrutiny and the racing - otherwise it could be possible to get a Pre-75 bike passed for scrutiny, and then line it up in the Pre-70 races.
I don't know if this is a real problem or an imagined one, but the identifier goes 98% of the way to solving it.

[FourstrokeForever]

If there was an issue with the era of the bike, couldn't that be address either before or after the race?

Yes, but the reason for an identifier is to keep the continuity between scrutiny and the racing - otherwise it could be possible to get a Pre-75 bike passed for scrutiny, and then line it up in the Pre-70 races.
I don't know if this is a real problem or an imagined one, but the identifier goes 98% of the way to solving it.

I think your imagination is working overtime Nathan. I can pretty much guarantee that all those in the pre70 class would know if there was someone attempting to line up on a pre75 bike. And they wouldn't be fooled by that pre75 bike even if it did have a bogus "n" identifier on it's number plates. I really can't imagine anyone having the kahoonas to attempt doing it either, as the lynch mob would be all over them.
Suggesting that a class identifier helps with scrutineering or lap scoring is bordering on silly.....If a scrutineer doesn't know what he/she is looking at, then they shouldn't be scrutineering. As for lap scoring, it's hard enough to follow numbers let alone a 50mm letter flying past at race pace with bikes all around it.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with having identifiers on my bikes, I just think it's another one of the "silly" rules.

[PEZBerq]

Nothing silly about being able to tell the class a machine is entered in by reading its number plate. Quite a good idea. More for the benefit if spectators and officials I expect. Not for scruitineers or purists who can tell what any machine is from its reflection on a tin shed from 50 feet away 

[KTM47]

I really think having the class indentification letter on the plate is a good idea.  What it does do is permit the start officials to identify a bike that shouldn't be in a race. 

Putting the letter on the plates with a three digit number is not as big a problem as it may appear.  From my experience (with modern MX) the lap scorers don't really like big size numbers, because they blend into the  plate too much.  Anyone who saw the bikes on the QVMX stand at to Moto Expo would of seen several bikes there with plates with three digit numbers and the class letter.

[Nathan S]

TBM, I was saying that it is no use for lap scoring (and therefore doesnt have to be a 50mm letter on every number plate).
It's only realistic value is for event admin, which includes containing continuity between scrutiny and what bikes line up on the start line.

Otherwise, I have no idea what the point of it is.

[FourstrokeForever]

Yeah Nathan, I suppose the identifiers are good for those controlling the start line. I know when I do the start line job I walk along the grid to make sure the riders are in the right race. It's a good excuse for a bit of friendly banter as well  I don't need the identifiers for the majority of bikes at club days but I guess a situation could arise where a volunteer doesn't necessarily know about old motorcycles, so having the letter on the bikes and on the race program IS A GOOD THING.....there, I said it.

[QLD779]

Who knows the correct machine identification colours for sidecars? I was using black numbers on yellow background but I was told to use black numbers on white background. I can't find anything in the rules regarding sidecar ID colours. I think most are using black on white which is not on the list.

[QLD779]

Ok thanks for clarifying that for me Walter. I'll go with the yellow background. As for the later frames, the rules aren't clear enough regarding use of frames for pre 85. Also unless a scrutineer inspector picks it up, who would know what frame is being used and is it their job to check frame eligibility? It is however up to the entrant to prove that the frame and engine is legal. It is hard to find information regarding some of these boarder line frames. But in the case of a title, pre 85 is pre 85. Simple.

[John Orchard]

I've never seen any rule stating that you must be a racer to contribute here 8-)