Rule re-write.

[evo550]

Am I right in assuming the Evo rules you've written will now allow CR500 motors in Twin shock 250 chassis with 50mm magnum forks ?

Engine Yes (as per Dave Tanner's comments in the other thread);
Forks No (as per 16.15.7a and 16.15.12.1).

I don't personally agree on the motor thing. I just went with what DT said in the other thread. It can be changed to limit motors and/or forks to being from Evo bikes.

16.15.12.1    The Evo class is for machines that closely represent those built up to (and including) 1985 models.

Ok, Firstly, not my idea of an Evo class. I don't agree with the interpretation in the other thread, that being said it's your proposal. You might want to change the wording in 16.15.12.1 to something along the lines of "must not comprise of any major components manufactured after dec 31 198?"
The "closely represents" bit leaves the rule wide open for interpretation.

[JohnnyO]

I would actually like to see the shock mount rule removed altogether for pre 78 to allow bikes like the 75 Maico & TM Suzuki, 75/76 CR250 & KX250/400 to have the rear end modified for more travel like they did back in the day and make them competitive.
It's really no different to buying a aftermarket C&J or Profab frame with more suspension travel than the original frame..

Agreed it makes sense and it was done in the day

But doesn't it say OEM. If they require more travel buy a bike with it or buy a aftermarket frame. Cutting up mounts can only lead to a bitch class.

I'm guessing you had nothing to do with mx in the mid 70's..

[Ted]

On the contrary John. 74 75 LMORCC 76 77 HAWKESBURY MCC then enduro HAWKESBURY MCC

John, I don't think cutting up bikes to alter suspension travel to make them more competitive is the way to go Improve them by all means but not moving mounts.

[Nathan S]

Nathan .... I think it's all covered in 2.5.9.1   and  1.2.0.1   

2.5.9.1    In carrying out their duties, operational officials must:

    At the beginning of the meeting report to the Clerk of the Course for instructions,
    Only use apparatus authorised under these Rules,
    Provide the Clerk of Course with reports as required,
    Comply with the directions and instructions of the Steward/Referee and the Clerk of Course.

1.2.0.1    The purpose of these Rules is to regulate and control motorcycle competition.

    The Rules are to be interpreted with the intent that competition will be safe, free and fair and conducted applying the principles of natural justice,
    The Rules are Competition Rules made under clause 71 of the Constitution,
    The Rules, and any determination made under them and in accordance with them, bind all Controlling Bodies and all participants in the sport.

[JohnnyO]

I was just remembering it as it was in the day Ted with a majority of bikes having laid down shocks in the mid 70's.. ala Gary Flood, Mark Pace, Graeme Smythe etc.
Thought it might encourage a few more 75/76 models onto the track.. Then again most people in vmx didn't race in the 70's let alone remember it!

[Nathan S]

16.15.12.1    The Evo class is for machines that closely represent those built up to (and including) 1985 models.

Ok, Firstly, not my idea of an Evo class. I don't agree with the interpretation in the other thread, that being said it's your proposal.

You might want to change the wording in 16.15.12.1 to something along the lines of "must not comprise of any major components manufactured after dec 31 198?"
The "closely represents" bit leaves the rule wide open for interpretation.

Point taken.
16.15.12.1 changed to "The Evo class is for machines that use the drum brakes, air-cooling and non-linkage rear suspension, as was commonplace until 1981. It also allows for later machines up to (and including) 1985 models that retained this technology".

I too, disagree with DT's definition, but his is the most official that we have to work with, and my intention was not to alter what is (or is not) legal.
If the most official definiton changes, then I'm more than happy to rework what I've done.

[SON]

John, some we laid down others we stood upright.
Either way we chased long travel even if it was under damped.

[DJRacing]

Nathan, excellent work. I hope that everyone reads them and replies with sensible questions and answers.

e) Evolution class bikes must have  No linkage suspension, No disk brakes, and Air cooled motors.
Could this be worded a little different so that it leaves in no doubt what it means?
Maybe,
    Evolution class bikes must have been manufactured with Twinshocked or cantilevered rear suspension and Aircooled motors and Drumbrakes. All parts from those bikes are permissible as are after-market parts of this era.
 a) Modifying your bike with other major parts from a different technology or era is not allowed.

Yes I know it's long winded but it is very self explanatory and I think very water tight. Anyway just a thought and obviously open for discussion re the old and new interpretation of the existing rules.

[Ted]

John, I am aware of the stars back then and their trick bikes. Unfortunately for broke arse mutha fukas like us 16/17 year old kids who scraped together just enough money for the bike and that was it. In the early seventies a wave went right thru Australia. That was MX on affordable, reliable race bikes. Gone forever were the AJ  and Matcho 500's you spent all day pushing. Deltek's became obsolete as well. You could buy brand new Jap bikes for under a months pay. The average Joe, and there were thousands of us were quite happy with our new rides.

I feel to change bikes for performance in 2014 is losing history.

[Tim754]

Nathan your work here is serious . Thank you for your time .

One that will stay and should never change.

16.11.1.2    The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine. Service and parts manual publication dates are not proof of eligibility

[DJRacing]

16.15.11.1    The pre 78 class is for machines that closely represent those built up to (and including) 1977 models.

I take it that you can now modify a pre75 bike to race in Pre 78 ?

[Nathan S]

I was just remembering it as it was in the day Ted with a majority of bikes having laid down shocks in the mid 70's.. ala Gary Flood, Mark Pace, Graeme Smythe etc.
Thought it might encourage a few more 75/76 models onto the track.. Then again most people in vmx didn't race in the 70's let alone remember it!

Why hasn't anyone mentioned this before!?  .... 

It's a fair point, though.
Is it worth changing the rules for? It's been "wrong" since the start of the Pre-78 class. Has it ever mattered?

[Nathan S]

I take it that you can now modify a pre75 bike to race in Pre 78 ?

That was the idea. The existing rules are unworkable, in that if you have a '74 model bike with a 75 model motor or forks (or whatever), it has to run as an Evo bike. The "75/76/77 models only" rule served no useful purpose, and created some unresolvable situations.

This ties in with Johnny O's point about modded shock mounts... Personally, I think that pre-75 bikes with lay-down rear shocks should be allowed to run in Pre-78. But I wasn't trying to change the rules, just make them clearer and simpler.

[DJRacing]

I take it that you can now modify a pre75 bike to race in Pre 78 ?

That was the idea. The existing rules are unworkable, in that if you have a '74 model bike with a 75 model motor or forks (or whatever), it has to run as an Evo bike. The "75/76/77 models only" rule served no useful purpose, and created some unresolvable situations.

This ties in with Johnny O's point about modded shock mounts... Personally, I think that pre-75 bikes with lay-down rear shocks should be allowed to run in Pre-78. But I wasn't trying to change the rules, just make them clearer and simpler.

Totally agree with you on that.

16.15.8.5    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
Could this have a small exception to the rule ??


16.15.8.5    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged unless a two stroke oil pump has been removed ??

[Ted]

I was just remembering it as it was in the day Ted with a majority of bikes having laid down shocks in the mid 70's.. ala Gary Flood, Mark Pace, Graeme Smythe etc.
Thought it might encourage a few more 75/76 models onto the track.. Then again most people in vmx didn't race in the 70's let alone remember it!

I was at Amaroo Park the day Gaston gave us a riding lesson. The same day Camel came out of the chicane on the back wheel, over the jump on the back wheel, landing on the back wheel and only putting it down to go around the corner. Was there to see Gary Fllod fu...ck up a start at MR MX and lay his bike ( bultaco i think ) across the start line, refusing to move it until they started the race again. Which they did. I used to watch Lester Rowley ride his CCM. Hans on his Husky. I was racing there in 75 /76 , can't recall, when Christ Cater rode my 125 S in a race, breaking the clutch perch in a fall. He gets the bike home in second place then walks over to a club member who has finished racing and orders him to remove his clutch perch and give it to me as I had one race to go. Which he did.

lucky  Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds wasn't as mainstream then as I would probably put it all down to a hallucination.