Rule re-write.

[micks]

along the same lines as matcho mick. we done 20 pages on "do you moto 100" (how`s that class going?) in  june 2008 but when ask by magoo (rip) about "rule book adjustments" in june 2008 it got 7 pages and here we are today.

[evo550]

the part that i find sad (& telling) is the post "who's going to the nats" gets 14 replies,this shit,(literally) gets 11 forking pages  ,

That just shows that hardly any of the jibberers posting all the crap on here are going to the Nats..

Why does it effect only Nats riders? Don't the rules apply across all levels of racing, Club, State and National.
Bet if I turned up to a race day with a '84 KTM USD forks/drum brake set up in the EVO class a $hit fight would erupt.
Not trying to start a slinging match, just applying the new rule interpretation.

[firko]

I know I vowed to stay away from these posts once they start turning into slagging matches but I think the below can contribute something positive to the subject. If you disagree with my take on it feel free to offer up intelligent debate and reasons for your objection but if it starts to turn into a slag match I'm out of here along with the thread.

The AHRMA is currently debating to include a new class to be called EARLY SPORTSMAN STOCK. Tahitian Red has previously discussed it on here in posts to do with his RT1 Early Stock project. Without going into unnecessary detail on rules that won't effect us here, the eligibility criteria is very similar to our pre '70 but is more performance and technology based. Following is the machine eligibility list with bikes that don't fit into our pre 70 eligibility but possibly deserve to be included as flow ons.
 11.1.8 EARLY SPORTSMAN STOCK 250: Certain 250 class machines introduced after the Classic era. some of the bikes in red are obvious inclusions despite their post 1970 release date (Kawasaki Bison 250, Bighorn 350, Yamaha AT-1 and CT-1, OSSA Stilleto 5 sp, Honda SL/CL 350 and Suzuli TS185) while others such as the QUB Greeves, BSA B50, Triumph TR-5, Maico 501, and Cooper 250 are at least worth debating their inclusion. My personal take is to disallow the Cooper 250, B50, TR5 and Maico 501 but allow the rest into pre 70 on the grounds that they're not competitive in pre 75 and that their technology base leans more towards pre 70 in concept.
 Eligible machines are:
 Bultaco Pursang Model 42-48-68
 CZ 250 Sidepipe
 Cooper MX 250
 Montesa 5 speed Cappra
 Husqvarna 250 Round Case 4-speed
 SB Maico Square Barrel
 OSSA 5 speed Stilleto
Yamaha DT-1
 Suzuki 250 Savage
 Suzuki 185
 Kawasaki 175 F7
 Kawasaki 250 Bison F8, F81
 Yamaha AT-1, CT-1


 11.1.9 EARLY SPORTSMAN STOCK 500: Certain Open class machines after the Classic era.
 Yamaha RT-1
 American Eagle 360/405
 SB Maico Square barrel
 Husqvarna Round Case 4-Speed
 CZ 360 Sidepipe
 501 Maico
 Greeves QUB 380
 BSA B50
 Kawasaki 350 Bighorn
 Honda SL &CL-350
 Triumph TR5 MX

[matcho mick]

aarrrggghhh delete it quick,before too many see it firko,my whole point is ,it doesnt have to be positive/negative,people just want to argue the point,you've just added more petrol to the fire 
look at evo's post,i know he's not going to do that,(just coz he can  ),he's not stupid,just saying,& again thats my point, go race,it's not rocket science!!,

[KTM47]

the part that i find sad (& telling) is the post "who's going to the nats" gets 14 replies,this shit,(literally) gets 11 forking pages  ,

That just shows that hardly any of the jibberers posting all the crap on here are going to the Nats..

Why does it effect only Nats riders? Don't the rules apply across all levels of racing, Club, State and National.
Bet if I turned up to a race day with a '84 KTM USD forks/drum brake set up in the EVO class a $hit fight would erupt.
Not trying to start a slinging match, just applying the new rule interpretation.

Yes that is correct there is only one rule book but a thousand intrepidations.  That is the major problem riders are let get away with things at club level because no one wants to be the bad guy.

[supersenior 50]

Time to go

[firko]

Well that went well.....I spend an hour compiling a positive post with what I thought would be good ideas but all I get is "delete it  before the idiots see it" message both on here and by PM. What the fluck has happened to our ability to debate important and interesting points without it turning to shit? Have the lunatics indeed taken over the asylum? I'll leave it up because the flow on criteria for pre 70 and pre 75 could do with a tune up but I suspect that I'm the only one who gives a rats

[matcho mick]

  lol mate,

[KTM47]

Well that went well.....I spend an hour compiling a positive post with what I thought would be good ideas but all I get is "delete it  before the idiots see it" message both on here and by PM. What the fluck has happened to our ability to debate important and interesting points without it turning to shit? Have the lunatics indeed taken over the asylum? I'll leave it up because the flow on criteria for pre 70 and pre 75 could do with a tune up but I suspect that I'm the only one who gives a rats

Mark I agree the Classic and Post Classic rules need adjusting, but I don't think here is the right place to discuss it.  To much crap.

[firko]

I agree......sadly Kevin whenever something important starts up here it turns to shit. I appreciate Nathans intent and hope something comes out of it. I'll work quietly off here and compile a list of possible flow ons for pre 60 right through to pre 78 (my knowledge taps out at around 1980ish) and post a thread when it's not so volatile on here.

[FourstrokeForever]

Well that went well.....I spend an hour compiling a positive post with what I thought would be good ideas but all I get is "delete it  before the idiots see it" message both on here and by PM. What the fluck has happened to our ability to debate important and interesting points without it turning to shit? Have the lunatics indeed taken over the asylum? I'll leave it up because the flow on criteria for pre 70 and pre 75 could do with a tune up but I suspect that I'm the only one who gives a rats

No, you're not the only one who gives a rats Mark. My knowledge of the era is not any where near as comprehensive as yours is. I do know a bit about the BSA's so I can say that I agree that the B50 and TR5 should remain in Pre75. They are competitive in the Pre75 era with the right rider on board. Besides, if the BSA and Trumpy B50 were to get bumped back to Pre70, then you'd also have to reconsider where the B44 sits and then the B40....

[DJRacing]

Pre 78.
I have thought long and hard on this class because it is one of my personal favourites and a very exciting time in motocross history. Without trying to change to much (rules) but still allowing people to modify and experiment with suspension as what was happening in the day. I'm not sure what the longest travel was for a stock bike at the time(1977) and (including flow-ons) but that's what the 10% greater than 9" is for so that stock suspension doesnt have to be restricted. Although Pre78 has suspension restictions and obviously back in the day there were none but they couldnt see into the future as we can see back in the past, so hence the 9" rule or the 10% greater for the last of the bikes of that era(pre78). The rule allowing up to 9" of travel for after-market or new suspension is so older bikes or people trying to ridiculously suspend there bikes don't lose there identity of Pre78 and start looking more like an Evo bike, but can still be competitive against the latest in the class in a racing situation. I agree with what has been said about altering suspension mounts for the purpose of re-creating the era. I hope everyone can understand what I have just written above because Pre78 is truly a piece of MX history and its identity should never be lost.

Pre 78 Solo and Pre 78 Woman's.
      This class is for showcasing the era when the revolution suspension travel wars began. Lots of ideas and innovations were tried and tested. This class is here for that reason.

16.15.11.1    The pre 78 class is for machines that were (or could have been) built, up to and     including 1977.

16.15.11.2    No more than 9" front and rear travel with a 10% greater allowance for bikes still fitted with the manufacturers original shocks and forks (9.9" or 251.4mm).
*note  (these measurements can be altered to be more correct with the bikes of the era

16.15.11.3   Suspension mounts maybe altered/moved but must remain within the parameters of the Era. The same number of shocks must still be used unless altering to a mono shock cantilevered type suspension.

16.15.11.4.  Any type of round slide carburettor of the Era can be used.

16.15.11.5.  All After-market, special and/or optional production parts of the Era are allowed, including major components. New parts must be compliant with what was available in the Era.

16.15.11.6   Acceptable follow on models for Pre78,
                   CZ 125 1978, CZ400 1978, Montesa VB, Yamaha TT500 1978

 I think/hope the above rules are what most people have asked for and that they are open enough to encourage more stock and modified bikes with limitations a more equal competitiveness (not that it wasnt already) on race day, and allowing the older bikes the ability to be modified as was in the day. 

[Ted]

What's your opinion on this one DJ

The eligibility scrutineer has stated that Evo is not limited to Pre 85, Pre 90 ,and is not an era or period.

The MoMS state " period flat slide and any round slide carburettors can be used "

Seeing as there is no period limit I will be entering a bike with a 2014 Mikuni TM 38 flat slide carby bolted to a 465 H.

[DJRacing]

What's your opinion on this one DJ

The eligibility scrutineer has stated that Evo is not limited to Pre 85, Pre 90 ,and is not an era or period.

The MoMS state " period flat slide and any round slide carburettors can be used "

Seeing as there is no period limit I will be entering a bike with a 2014 Mikuni TM 38 flat slide carby bolted to a 465 H.

Ted that's a funny one because on one hand the rules state ;
16.15.12.3    All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured:
But as there is no defining time period for Evo (stated by an offical from MA) then does that mean the year the bike was made? Or does it mean any carb off any Aircooled motor can be used or does it mean any carb fitted to a reed block or 'V' block power reed could be used??
Although looking at rule;
16.15.12.4    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
 Once again I'm unsure of the period they mean here because the period is on-going because Aircooled motors are still being made. Is the 'Period' went the bike was made, or when the last bike made with an Aircooled motor??

Common sense (which can't be counted on because rules have been put in place of) would suggest that rules,
16.15.12
16.15.12.1
16.15.12.2
16.15.12.3
 would all be combined with the notion that all bikes were manufactured with
    No linkage suspension,
    No disk brakes,
    Air cooled motors.
so then the PEROID that they talk about would be when a bike is/was manufactured with all the above three governing factors.
But as has been stated, this isn't the case and components from other periods can be used if it is bolted to other parts that are the same e.g. Forks and drum-brakes, so if a carb is bolted to a reed or an air filter does it mean it can be used because the period is the same. Modern 2014 air filter - carb - reed  or Evo air filter - carb - reed ??
To answer your question Ted, I'm sorry I can't, I am at a loss to understand the meanings of the rules of Evo that have been presented to us now.

[Ted]

It would have to be deemed legal . As you said any OEM drum brakes can be used. They still make drum brakes today. The carby fits into that period.