Rule re-write.

[JohnnyO]

The YZ360b and 250b are 74 models and have been legal for pre 75 for years.. Why are we going down this road again??

[firko]

Why are we going down this road again??

I was wondering the same thing.

[supersenior 50]

I suggest everyone should read "The philosophy and structure of the GCRs" at the beginning of the on line MoMs, take a deep breath and a cold shower and settle down.
We are all hoping for a trouble free and enjoyable event ( following two failed attempts), and speaking as one who knows, it is a big task for volunteers to take on running such an event. Not to mention a big financial risk for the host club.
Those not directly involved should take a back seat and leave their thoughts until after the Nats, then go through the proper channels. I have proved it works.
Those owners/riders who are DIRECTLY involved, if wanting to do their part in assisting the volunteers to run a harmonious event, can fit Evo sourced components, enter Pre85, or take the third choice. There is obviously split opinion on the OEM meaning, so going back to "The philosophy..." and the spirit of what we are about, take the heat off the volunteer officials and do our bit to avoid agro at these titles.

[Rossvickicampbell]

sorry Firko/JO - just read it as was written previously - yes the Bs were a legitimate model - not a flow on - but was wondering why the 360 was listed and not the 250 - my bad - not opening that bag again 

[DJRacing]

Nathan I hope you don't mind but I have listed a few thoughts in Red next to yours and maybe some discussion (not arguments) might take place by the mature and informative people of this forum.

Now that lots of people's brains have exploded, here's the same rules with annotations in blue. (The blue bits aren't part of the rules - they help people understand the wording.

Pre 78 Solo and Women's Pre-78. This class is intended to represent the transition era between the short travel Pre-75 machines and the long travel Evo machines.
16.15.11.1    The pre 78 class is for machines that closely represent those built up to (and including) 1977 models.
16.15.11.2    Front wheel travel will not exceed 229mm (9 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 229mm (9 inches) measured at the axle. (I want to change this to 10", but in the spirit of not changing the regs, I have resisted...). No more than 9" front and rear travel with a 10% greater allowance for bikes still fitted with the manufacturers original shocks and forks (9.9" or 251.4mm).
16.15.11.4    Carburettors; any type of pre 78 round slide may be used.
16.15.11.8     Acceptable follow on models pre 78

    CZ 125 1978, CZ400 1978,
    Montesa VB, (ditched the "must comply with suspension limits bit" because the bike has to comply with 16.15.11.2 and 16.11.1.1)
    Yamaha TT500 1978 (is this correct?)


Evolution. This class is intended to represent the era of long suspension travel, before water-cooling, disc brakes and linkage rear suspension became dominant.
16.15.12.1    The Evo class is for machines that use drum brakes, air-cooling and non-linkage rear suspension, as was commonplace until 1981. It also allows for later machines up to (and including) 1985 models that retained this technology. (yes, 1985. Locking Evo into an era kills off the SexMax and any variation of it, without harming any of the 'real' Evo bikes. It still allows the later Evo Huskies, later CZs, and DT175s(!) )
e) Evolution class bikes must have  No linkage suspension, No disk brakes, and Air cooled motors.
16.15.12.4    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
16.15.12.9    The handlebars must be equipped with a protection pad on the cross bar. Handlebars not fitted with a cross bar must be equipped with a protection pad located in the middle of the handlebars covering the handlebar clamps. (not sure if this is supposed to be on the older eras too? Just repeating what's in the current rules).
f) Front forks must be of the non-USD type, where the fork seal(s) move with the front axle. (stops Simmons USDs and 84 KTM USDs).
(I've written this using Dave Tanner's interpretation which was basically 'we don't care if it came from a linkage/water-cooled/disc braked bike, provided the end result has drums, air and no link'. I don't personally agree, but its the closest we've got to an answer to that long running question, so I used it).

16.15.12 Evo class.
                               This class is intended to represent the era of long travel suspension (LTS) before linkage rear suspension and/or water cooled motors and/or disc brakes.
 16.15.12.1 The period or era for Evo is generally up to and including 1981 but no more than 1985.  16.15.12.2 Evolution bikes have to have been manufactured with, Non Linkage suspension, Drum Brakes and Aircooled Motors.
a) All parts from those bikes are permissible as are all after-market parts of this era.     
       b) Modifying your bike with other major parts(other than after-market parts) from a newer era or technology is not allowed (no USD forks).

By the way, YES, I am an outsider so I have no personal agenda other than if you guys (in Oz) get it right then other places may adopt your rules.
All I have done is read what people seem to want from their rules and put pen to paper.
As most in here and the "other thread" have said some rules need tweaking/ clarifying so it is fair, simple and easy.
Sometimes looking from the outside in can be more clear and less bais.
Anyway gentlemen, some times a simple Yes or No answer can be a lot more effective than a long drawn out opinion, so with that I will let the games begin.

[VMX247]

Is anyone submitting one or two rule changes for next years GCR's ? or we going to keep going around in a circle.

[KTM47]

This is one of the rules that needs updating in the MOMS.  The facts are if an official read the rules as written there are a lot of things that are generally accepted that could be knocked back.

But there is the section in the front that says .

THE PHILOSOPHY AND STRUCTURE OF THE GENERAL COMPETITION RULES

No set of Rules can anticipate every issue which may arise in the conduct of a sport, especially one with as wide a variety of disciplines and competing interests as exist in motorcycling. The philosophy of these Rules is that good sense, cooperation and a fair and reasonable interpretation of reasonable Rules should be more important than “Rule Book Racing”.

So using the above if the YZ360B is legal then the YZ250B probably should be also.

So as I see it the YZ360B and YZ250B are not carry over models they are recognised as 1974 models.  So the reference to the 360B in the carry over models is wrong.

Kevin

[Rossvickicampbell]

correct.

[supersenior 50]

Please see my reply 17 on the Maico/Evo rules thread

[FourstrokeForever]

Fark my old boots....does the sport really need to keep on going over the same old ground?

[supersenior 50]

Exactly

[Rossvickicampbell]

TBM - which bit are you talking about - if it is in reference to the YZBs - my mistake in what I was looking at - not going over old ground.

cheers

[matcho mick]

the part that i find sad (& telling) is the post "who's going to the nats" gets 14 replies,this shit,(literally) gets 11 forking pages  ,

[supersenior 50]

Right on Mick. However if you take the "Scutineering...." thread, Ebay Montessa thread and Maico Evo rules thread,plus this one, there are 40 pages.

[JohnnyO]

the part that i find sad (& telling) is the post "who's going to the nats" gets 14 replies,this shit,(literally) gets 11 forking pages  ,

That just shows that hardly any of the jibberers posting all the crap on here are going to the Nats..