Hired guns at Aussie titles.

[Nathan S]

Age is already a handicap for the old guy..
Most other sports attracting young and old competitors have age groups, swimming, running, cycling and then you have the Masters Games which is all sports and all with age groups..

Right.
So surely the real answer is along the lines of:
Making age categories for the older blokes who cannot compete with the younger riders, rather than making more rules that only skirt around the actual problem?

There's still not a case for why the young/hired guns riding at the Nats are a problem for the sport. Currently, the fastest rider wins the outright title - sounds pretty well spot-on to me.

[Simo63]

Age is already a handicap for the old guy..
Most other sports attracting young and old competitors have age groups, swimming, running, cycling and then you have the Masters Games which is all sports and all with age groups..

Right.
So surely the real answer is along the lines of:
Making age categories for the older blokes who cannot compete with the younger riders, rather than making more rules that only skirt around the actual problem?

There's still not a case for why the young/hired guns riding at the Nats are a problem for the sport. Currently, the fastest rider wins the outright title - sounds pretty well spot-on to me.

I agree with you Nathan .... more age categories might be required in pre 78 and the post classic classes but even that is really just creating a situation that adds cost and complexity to the events.

I can guarantee you that road racing does not have any of this sort of crap ..... if Casey Stoner decides to turn up at the Island Classic on a Clive Wolfenden Honda Four rocket ship, then proceeds to win everything and set lap records then so be it.... the better man won on the day.  No crying in your premix required.

I'm going to resist commenting in this thread any further as I am finding it quite frustrating.  I think I've made my position clear and I'm confident you can all carry on without my input 

[firko]

If you want to get real picky then maybe 25/30/40/50 year olds shouldn't be allowed to race pre60/pre65/pre70 as they either weren't born or in nappies when those bikes where at there peak and in vogue....how does a 70 year old feel when there are 30/40 or what ever year olds racing "there" class....you don't hear Col Metcher or Bill Watson (75 and 83 years old) whining because the younger guys beat them.....you guy's are getting soft......have a glass of cement. This to me is worse than the RM125B arm bullshit. This is a very selfish argument.
 

You're missing the point John.....it's not so much the age thing but the once a year thing.

[JohnnyO]

Yeah this is going round in circles and getting nowhere, whatever happens happens and I'm happy to be still racing and still be competitive..
I stated my point way back in the first couple of pages and now we're just digging a hole.

[marshallmech]

Re: 2013 Australian Post Classic MX Titles
« Reply #349 on: April 08, 2013, 10:52:35 PM »
Remove
Well no camping is the main reason i haven't entered allot will say  there's plenty of towns around to get a campsite at but its the in connivance and also there is not the atmosphere. Good atmosphere good  race meeting IMO.
Hard to do work on the bike if needed in a caravan park and just general prep is also harder .
The main reason it didn't happen in Tasmania IMO was cost and cost plays big part in it all there are people  whom can easily afford it and others that struggle but love to participate but just don't have the funds with all the associated costs of a national event.
And another reason that plays a big  part IMO is that most guys in the scene spend  allot with club fees, license fees, entry fees, bike prep, race the rounds his vmx club run  to come to a national meeting only to have  no chance against the ring in on someones bike whom does nothing for the VMX scene all year but can come and blow every one away on a borrowed bike.Winning isn't everything and just to compete at a Nats is a buzz but is makes you wonder is it worth it when this happens .


Re: 2013 Australian Post Classic MX Titles
« Reply #352 on: April 08, 2013, 11:17:34 PM »
Remove
Thank you Senior my own thoughts are to qualify you must have competed in 4 or more rounds in your states clubs vmx competition.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 11:19:58 PM by marshallmech »


Wow i said this before and basically got screamed down amazing .I will leave it at that

[BAHNZY]

As long as the Aussie title is a one event affair it will be like this ... Forever.
An import US rider at an Aussie national (generally) has no effect on the title as it's a one time party, it just gets washed out across the series results. Throw an age group at it and it will appease most but won't stop a one trick pony.

[marshallmech]

Posts: 1013


Re: 2013 Australian Post Classic MX Titles
« Reply #355 on: April 09, 2013, 05:40:24 AM »

This was a reply from 090

I have been to most title events. The most I can remember was three or four at Broadford. You talk as if the events are littered with young guys.
How many title events would you have placed but for the hired guns?
How many title events have you raced?
The fact that the local riders don't want to support what should be a large and great event in their own back yard points the finger squarely at them.
It would be good if we had it up here in Queensland next year. We love to ride up here, not just talk about it.

[09.0]

Posts: 1013


Re: 2013 Australian Post Classic MX Titles
« Reply #355 on: April 09, 2013, 05:40:24 AM »

This was a reply from 090

I have been to most title events. The most I can remember was three or four at Broadford. You talk as if the events are littered with young guys.
How many title events would you have placed but for the hired guns?
How many title events have you raced?
The fact that the local riders don't want to support what should be a large and great event in their own back yard points the finger squarely at them.
It would be good if we had it up here in Queensland next year. We love to ride up here, not just talk about it.

In relation to reasons why a certain person didn't enter the Canberra nationals.
Now use a quote from this thread of me saying I don't care about the hired guns personally. This thread started with me quoting another racer and me saying he has a point. Noel also entered and raced. It wasn't an excuse NOT to race.

[Ted]

This minimum 4 club event proposal would be so easy to get over the line.

( 1 ) Simply draft up a petition stating, To be eligible to compete at a National Title you must complete  a minimum 4 club rounds between the last Nats and the next one. You e-Mail that to all VMX clubs for their members to sign. I reckon you would get over 500 signatures no problem.

( I am assuming MA can implement this proposal )

( 2 ) You take the petition to MA. You make them aware of the one hit wonders. You explain to them that by introducing this proposal, the 3/4/5 one hit wonders will have to shell out 4 times for day licenses ( filling MA coffers ) and also 4 times for club meets ( aiding affiliated clubs coffers )

In the event that MA say, " What if the one hit wonders say Get Nicked, we ain't coming " you would simply reply " So we lose 3/4/5 riders fees but we will pick up 10/20 regulars fees in the knowledge that they will be competing with like minded people.

5/15 more entries. $$$$$$$ to MA. They are a business. Every business needs to make money.

I understand that the one hit wonders may have full licenses so at the very least it would help the clubs that host their own rounds and the club that host the Nats ( entry fees that is ) The governing body has to see good in that.

[KTM47]

That isn't the way rules are changed. Read your MOMS.

[KTM47]

If you want to get real picky then maybe 25/30/40/50 year olds shouldn't be allowed to race pre60/pre65/pre70 as they either weren't born or in nappies when those bikes where at there peak and in vogue....how does a 70 year old feel when there are 30/40 or what ever year olds racing "there" class....you don't hear Col Metcher or Bill Watson (75 and 83 years old) whining because the younger guys beat them.....you guy's are getting soft......have a glass of cement. This to me is worse than the RM125B arm bullshit. This is a very selfish argument.
 

You're missing the point John.....it's not so much the age thing but the once a year thing.

We now seem to have two different issues here.

I really don't care about the hired gun anymore because I am getting to old to be competitive in the combined class.

Next year's Post Classic Champs has age groups in the Evo so I'm fine. But in the Classic Champs Pre 78 my other class doesn't have age groups.

As I have said before, either all classes have age groups or none do. Why discriminate?

[Ted]

That isn't the way rules are changed. Read your MOMS.

I was generalizing FFS

You know, I was once told that I had to produce literature, dated photos, affadavits, wait till they meet and a personal fu..king reference from the Pope to get a little part accepted. BOOM BOOM wrong on all counts

[VMX247]

It's the guys they bring in who actually know nothing of the sport or bikes, but must admit are damn quick, that make me shake my head.  The guy Jones at crystal brook was super quick and won his events, but if i'm correct when asked about the bikes he rode knew absolutely nothing about them, was just a hired gun.  That I find disrepectful to the sport we're involved in.

Yes, that was hard to watch.
After your state team travels 3000 odd km to watch A Grader's go down by a smoking ex USA modern rider 

Alison, I can tell you that Glen Bell, James Deacon and Dave Armstrong will be competing at the Echo Valley Post Classic Nats along with a few other top guy's from the day, there wont be many or any "kids" that will beat them. . It's a great spectacle to watch 500cc 2 strokes being riden flat out...BTW, they wont just be riding 500's. These guy's come to some of our club days. To make our sport grow you need people like this turning up, you wont get anyone to come and watch a bunch of wobblers, beggars cant be choosers. We need everybody....young/old/fast/slow/sponsors.....Hired guns are not new, they have been around for years...we just have to keep them coming back and hopefully to club days.

Sponsored Riders sounds nicer for the older Legends  
Yep sure you guys and gals in sunny Qld will put on another top event, but you really must visit us one day (with a sea container full)   
ps lovin that YZ sponsored bike   

[KTM47]

Really I think having the hired gun race is fantastic. As an example If the Conondale Classic was the run as the Post Classic Champs and a rule that some riders want was in place.

Here are the riders who would not of been permitted to race.

Darryl King, Shane King, David Armstrong, James Deakin, Andrew Bailey, Glen Bell etc.

For next year's Post Classic Champs it would be great to have all those rider's above and Troy Carroll, Stephen Gall and maybe even Reggie race. While some of these riders may be able to get to some extra meetings do you think they would all have time to do so?

The Championships should be open to everyone. There should also be recognition of the older riders as well by having age groups.

[brent j]

This minimum 4 club event proposal would be so easy to get over the line.

( 1 ) Simply draft up a petition stating, To be eligible to compete at a National Title you must complete  a minimum 4 club rounds between the last Nats and the next one. You e-Mail that to all VMX clubs for their members to sign. I reckon you would get over 500 signatures no problem.

( I am assuming MA can implement this proposal )

( 2 ) You take the petition to MA. You make them aware of the one hit wonders. You explain to them that by introducing this proposal, the 3/4/5 one hit wonders will have to shell out 4 times for day licenses ( filling MA coffers ) and also 4 times for club meets ( aiding affiliated clubs coffers )

In the event that MA say, " What if the one hit wonders say Get Nicked, we ain't coming " you would simply reply " So we lose 3/4/5 riders fees but we will pick up 10/20 regulars fees in the knowledge that they will be competing with like minded people.

5/15 more entries. $$$$$$$ to MA. They are a business. Every business needs to make money.

I understand that the one hit wonders may have full licenses so at the very least it would help the clubs that host their own rounds and the club that host the Nats ( entry fees that is ) The governing body has to see good in that.

This scenario would make my situation a bit expensive.

I have no local VMX clubs or racing. The closest one is probably 3000km away.
I've only attended one nats (Last years) but had to travel nearly 4000km to get there.
I'm no young gun rider, 54 and getting slower but I really did enjoy attending our premier event.
The Nats, or other big event is my yearly or two yearly treat.