Author Topic: Hired guns at Aussie titles.  (Read 35439 times)

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Offline SlideRulz

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2013, 07:11:40 pm »
I'll admit I haven't read all 7 pages, Pancho, Fossil & I are all paid up members of the DTU. It sounds like a great idea to me to have anyone under 30, " Qualify " for a title meeting.
Leon is on the right track.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 07:15:46 pm by SlideRulz »

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2013, 07:13:14 pm »
I don't think anyone has a problem with the young blokes or girls who race Classic regularly in WA brook lawson , Kris lindgren, Sarah, Rob Dillon and Ben Melvin are all regular members at our meetings and 3 competed at this yrs nats.

It's the guys they bring in who actually know nothing of the sport or bikes, but must admit are damn quick, that make me shake my head.  The guy Jones at crystal brook was super quick and won his events, but if i'm correct when asked about the bikes he rode knew absolutely nothing about them, was just a hired gun.  That I find disrepectful to the sport we're involved in.
That's it in a nutshell..

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2013, 07:41:41 pm »
I don't think anyone has a problem with the young blokes or girls who race Classic regularly in WA brook lawson , Kris lindgren, Sarah, Rob Dillon and Ben Melvin are all regular members at our meetings and 3 competed at this yrs nats.

It's the guys they bring in who actually know nothing of the sport or bikes, but must admit are damn quick, that make me shake my head.  The guy Jones at crystal brook was super quick and won his events, but if i'm correct when asked about the bikes he rode knew absolutely nothing about them, was just a hired gun.  That I find disrepectful to the sport we're involved in.
That's it in a nutshell..

Are we the only sport to consider this important?

I can only imagine the amount of magazine/forum/Facebook space that would go to the modern MX rider who turned up to a his first ever road race meeting and won an Aussie title. If they then turned around and admitted that they didn't even anything about the bike they were riding, they'd be a household name within a week.

But the world of VMX is the opposite?!
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline 09.0

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2013, 07:43:43 pm »
Brad ..... to qualify would that be at club meetings being social rides  or would it be points rounds ??
If it's points rounds we have gone full circle.   
Just turn up and ride in my opinion. Get out there and be part of the scene. God knows, you might like it... ;)

Offline KTM47

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2013, 07:45:01 pm »
Really making riders qualify for the Championships would be to difficult.

Does it only apply to riders under 30. There are still some very quick 35, 40 and 45 year olds out there. How do you write a rule for it that allows a way out for extreme circumstances. Do you leave it up to someone to make that decision. With things like this you need rules that are cut a dried.

As I said before, in my opinion either all classes have age groups or no classes have age groups.

Age groups for Pre 85 and Pre 90 would only need to go to 55 and 50 respectively. A rider who was twenty years old in 82 and was racing Pre 85s back when they were new would be 51 now. Similarly for Pre 90, 46 now.

If you were to have some form of qualification it would have to be across the board.

Do we really want that?????
 
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Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2013, 07:45:54 pm »
Brad, what have you done.  ;)
There is a serious point that is being missed, take Pre78 as an example.
The base bike is now 36+ years old. In those 30 odd years suspension technology has jumped ahead 10 fold (or more) yet outwardly the bike looks just like it did back in the day. Engine tuning has also followed and no doubt the HP and torque is up on what they were able to achieve back in the day. We fit up the latest stainless steel spokes to Excell rims that shares duties with people like Dungey, Reed & Vilopoto yet we leave the shitty cast alloy or sometimes magnesium hubs that have done 30 plus years of work on the bike. We then bolt all this bling and HP into a frame that we have no idea of what condition it's in other then we blasted it and gave it a powder coat.

As much as the technology has moved forward so have the bag of skills that riders use. Seat bouncing to clear jumps, scrubbing to shed speed on the face of a jump, panicking revving to bring a front end up mid flight, braking mid flight to drop the nose, etc are now common place.

I have watched young "A" grade riders on the old bikes and marvel at the speed and lap times but having this terrible gut feeling that the next landing will see a frame snap in half or a hub dissenter-grate.

A one time guest or hired rider in a court of law could be seen as a employee and thus the employer could (and would be) liable for an injury claim if the equipment was deemed to be defective, more so where the employer hadn't taken the necessary steps and utilisation of available technologies to ensure the equipment was safe or fit for the intended purpose.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 07:48:49 pm by BAHNZY »
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

Offline Ted

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2013, 07:56:50 pm »
Anything is possible if you are prepared to put the time and effort in.

 If somebody would care to put a petition together calling for a minimum 4 Club Events participation between National Events to become eligible for a National Title I would gladly sign it. It won't worry our kids at Heaven, they ride double that, but it may just stop the one offer.

I understand that 40/50/60 etc year old guys would not have to adhere to this.

I once tried to enter Clint Debner on a 1981 YZ 465 in the Pre 90 class in the first MR VMX at Barleigh Ranch to howls of, OH no a former Yamaha factory rider, Oh Faaark a former Kid motocross, Are you sure he is over 30. Funny now that we advertise our big events with names like Glenn Bell and the King brothers.
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline SON

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2013, 08:19:12 pm »
Opinions are like ar$ES,  everyone's got one,
And you are entitled to voice it,
This is glass half full
Glass half empty mentality,
Chad Reed is nearly 32,
I sponsored Chad when he was fifteen,
I have stashed the RM125 to restore for him to ride one day,
Jay Foreman has his SX winning 250,
Who doesn't want to see him ride them?
Beatle rode MR VMX who didn't want him or Gilesy there?

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #113 on: November 08, 2013, 08:21:06 pm »
Is part of the problem that we want the National Titles to be won be a club level rider?

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #114 on: November 08, 2013, 08:27:58 pm »
Is part of the problem that we want the National Titles to be won be a club level rider?
Why is everyone missing the point here?
The discussion is about young guys who are not normally into vmx turning up to a national in a one off appearance on a borrowed bike in an attempt to win a title..

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #115 on: November 08, 2013, 08:34:00 pm »
Opinions are like ar$ES,  everyone's got one,
And you are entitled to voice it,
This is glass half full
Glass half empty mentality,
Chad Reed is nearly 32,
I sponsored Chad when he was fifteen,
I have stashed the RM125 to restore for him to ride one day,
Jay Foreman has his SX winning 250,
Who doesn't want to see him ride them?
Beatle rode MR VMX who didn't want him or Gilesy there?
This topic is about young guys cherry picking VMX for a trophy.. Those guys aren't young

Offline SON

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #116 on: November 08, 2013, 08:41:08 pm »
Johnny when your 55
32 is young
My son was born in 1984 he has a 1984 RM125/250/500
If he fronts to a VMX Title is he a Hired Gun??

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #117 on: November 08, 2013, 08:44:56 pm »
Is part of the problem that we want the National Titles to be won be a club level rider?
Why is everyone missing the point here?
The discussion is about young guys who are not normally into vmx turning up to a national in a one off appearance on a borrowed bike in an attempt to win a title..

Why do we care?
Does any other sport care?
Why are old guys who are not normally into vmx turning up to a national in a one off appearance on a borrowed bike in an attempt to win a title not a problem?

You haven't made a case for why the 'young, hired guns' are a problem.



The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #118 on: November 08, 2013, 08:49:26 pm »
Johnny when your 55
32 is young
My son was born in 1984 he has a 1984 RM125/250/500
If he fronts to a VMX Title is he a Hired Gun??
Graeme we are basically talking about the 16-29yo guys that don't have an interest in owning a vintage bike and just turn up at the Nats trophy hunting..
You've said your son has 3 bikes and I'm sure he'll want to ride them more than once a year..

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Hired guns at Aussie titles.
« Reply #119 on: November 08, 2013, 09:12:06 pm »
Is part of the problem that we want the National Titles to be won be a club level rider?
Why is everyone missing the point here?
The discussion is about young guys who are not normally into vmx turning up to a national in a one off appearance on a borrowed bike in an attempt to win a title..

Why do we care?
Does any other sport care?
Why are old guys who are not normally into vmx turning up to a national in a one off appearance on a borrowed bike in an attempt to win a title not a problem?

You haven't made a case for why the 'young, hired guns' are a problem.
Age is already a handicap for the old guy..
Most other sports attracting young and old competitors have age groups, swimming, running, cycling and then you have the Masters Games which is all sports and all with age groups..
If you don't think there's anything wrong with the young hired gun then so be it.. we all have differing opinions
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 09:23:31 pm by JohnnyO »