Hired guns at Aussie titles.

[JohnnyO]

Apart from an obvious "age" difference,
whats the difference between a "young" hired gun and an "age ok" hired gun?
I say,
Let em ride

Because its a lot easier to take getting beaten by someone your own age? Ha

[Davey Crocket]

So is it the young guns fault or the person who owns the bike they are riding?.....are we talking about sour grapes because the regular guns got beaten?.....I mean, you gotta be good to win anyway......I love watching bikes go fast no matter who is riding them. They aren't breaking any rules.

[GMC]

It never ceases to amaze me that I just finish reading a thread where guys are declaring we have too many rules and then the next discussion we’re trying to invent new rules.

I feel for the riders who've trained all year to get as fit as they can, spent a shitload on getting the bike just right and raced all season to get that 'racers edge' who get beaten out of the placings by a hired gun riding their Uncle Bobs bike for a one off bit of a giggle. I agree that there's little we can do to stop them but it doesn't seem very fair to me. 

It’s been that way ever since I can remember, you think you have your class sussed but there would always be someone come out of the woodwork that could ride fast but would only ride their local event.

The intent may be to ‘weed’ out the young guns but how do you propose to do that?
How do you distuingish between young guns and young wobblers?

Also I think you will find that most young riders will have an involvement to vintage in one way or another, so what’s wrong with them riding dads or uncles bike and trying to do the family proud?

There is age racing already so isn’t that enough?

[JohnnyO]

It never ceases to amaze me that I just finish reading a thread where guys are declaring we have too many rules and then the next discussion we’re trying to invent new rules.

I feel for the riders who've trained all year to get as fit as they can, spent a shitload on getting the bike just right and raced all season to get that 'racers edge' who get beaten out of the placings by a hired gun riding their Uncle Bobs bike for a one off bit of a giggle. I agree that there's little we can do to stop them but it doesn't seem very fair to me. 

It’s been that way ever since I can remember, you think you have your class sussed but there would always be someone come out of the woodwork that could ride fast but would only ride their local event.

The intent may be to ‘weed’ out the young guns but how do you propose to do that?
How do you distuingish between young guns and young wobblers?

Also I think you will find that most young riders will have an involvement to vintage in one way or another, so what’s wrong with them riding dads or uncles bike and trying to do the family proud?

There is age racing already so isn’t that enough?

You're out of touch Geoff, there is only age groups in pre 75.

[Simo63]

Apart from an obvious "age" difference,
whats the difference between a "young" hired gun and an "age ok" hired gun?
I say,
Let em ride

Because its a lot easier to take getting beaten by someone your own age? Ha

LOL .. oh and congrats on 4000 posts John

[GMC]

Yeah maybe, but when it comes to old guys racing each other then it makes very little difference whether they are on a Pre 70 or a Pre 75

The age racing for the post Nats needs to be changed to Pre 85 as it also makes very little difference as to whether they are on a Pre 85 or Evo bike

[Ktm181]

I reckon you'd normally stick a "gun" (current) or former gun/pro in in a "pro" class, but if this IS a national title meeting you could hardly have a National Pro title AND a National Clubman title, it's sort of devalue the win IMO. So, would age classes PLUS a Pro class be more fair?  Sort of, its hardly a fair fight when its a 54 year old versus a 24 year old A grader is it? Even if the 54 year old is still fairly quick?  Apart from that it opens a can of worms doesnt it, like 250 class pre 85 over 30, over 35,over 40 and so on becomes a mess for all involved and expensive in relation to trophys etc, hard question, age classes for sure PLUS a Pro class for all former Pro/A graders is still tuff, I mean the above scenario with a 54year old former Pro/A grader like Belly or similar against someone like Mat Moss ?!?  Belly is quick still but i reckon Mossy might just do him on the right bike. 

Ideal world, age classes with 5 year breaks PLUS Pro class gets my vote.

Kt

[JohnnyO]

Apart from an obvious "age" difference,
whats the difference between a "young" hired gun and an "age ok" hired gun?
I say,
Let em ride

Because its a lot easier to take getting beaten by someone your own age? Ha

LOL .. oh and congrats on 4000 posts John

Wow! I didn't realise I had 4000 arguments in me Simo..thanks for the help in getting me there!

[vandy010]

Apart from an obvious "age" difference,
whats the difference between a "young" hired gun and an "age ok" hired gun?
I say,
Let em ride

Because its a lot easier to take getting beaten by someone your own age? Ha

Classic stuff mate...
I get beat by guys "older" than me...
walk a mile in my shoes...

[kdx 175]

yes pre 85 that means I done need to get 2 nd bike one will do me

[Simo63]

Apart from an obvious "age" difference,
whats the difference between a "young" hired gun and an "age ok" hired gun?
I say,
Let em ride

Because its a lot easier to take getting beaten by someone your own age? Ha

LOL .. oh and congrats on 4000 posts John

Wow! I didn't realise I had 4000 arguments in me Simo..thanks for the help in getting me there!

Your welcome mate .. but I can't take much of the credit ... thankfully

[KTM47]

Again what do you what? The winner to be the best rider bike combination or the best rider bike combination minus those who we don't like because they might beat us.

Like Junior racing there needs to be age groups, but there also needs to be an Open (all ages)  Championship in each of the three capacity classes, in each period class, that everyone with the correct licence can race in. When using the word Open I mean open to all ages etc. If there is just one full grid (40 bikes), run it as one race. Score the Championship from those races, but also rescore it in each age group. With transponders it isn't hard to do.

If there is more than one grid, use timed qualifying to get the top forty for the all ages Championship. Then run the age groups in as many different events as needed. Several age groups can be run together but scored separately. it may be worth while considering reducing the number of entries to constitute a Championship class also for the age groups particularly in the over 60s.

Either way I don't think we should restrict it all to just the older riders.

This hired gun thing will become more of a problem in the Post Classic Championships. With the Pre 85 and Pre 90 being a lot closer to the modern bikes than the Classic MX bikes.

Has anyone got three 1989 KXs (125, 250 & 500) for Troy C to use at Toowoomba?

PS while I've been typing this there have been 9 posts and counting

[firko]

The intent may be to ‘weed’ out the young guns but how do you propose to do that?

I'm not wishing that, I'm just lamenting how crook it is when an 18 year old once a year trophy hunter on dads bike knocks over a 54 year old who's been racing all year (and for 10 years before that) on his own bike. It's been like it since Rob Watson put Ronnie Dinsdale on his Bultacos back in 1988 so nothing will change except our willingness to whinge about it

[Davey Crocket]

If you want to get real picky then maybe 25/30/40/50 year olds shouldn't be allowed to race pre60/pre65/pre70 as they either weren't born or in nappies when those bikes where at there peak and in vogue....how does a 70 year old feel when there are 30/40 or what ever year olds racing "there" class....you don't hear Col Metcher or Bill Watson (75 and 83 years old) whining because the younger guys beat them.....you guy's are getting soft......have a glass of cement. This to me is worse than the RM125B arm bullshit. This is a very selfish argument.

[KTM47]

You either have recognition of the different ages in all classes or in none.

So let either work towards it for everyone or drop the age groups in the classes that have them.

What is Nathan's record for number of pages?