Bike eligiblity, arguments and perspective

[Rossvickicampbell]

agree - sorry John - you last sentence is wrong - there has to be somewhere a line is drawn in the sand which we work to.  Geez we wouldn't have 1/2 the fun we do currently if it wasn't pre 85, Evo, pre 78, pre 75 etc if there were no rules (compliance) and it was a free for all - I don't want to ride against pre 85 bikes on my pre 78 bike etc.

[John Orchard]

Yeh I do agree with you Bill & Ross, with regard National events I didn't mean to get 'too' relaxed.... like running 11" of travel in Pre 78, just being allowed to run a Suzuki alloy arm on your RM125 when you can buy a DG or Thor arm legally.  I really meant being a little more flexible (if needed) to get the numbers, as they do at club level.

[TM BILL]

John with respect your opinion come across as a idealist , the system ( and from your experience you know it way better than me ) is far from ideal . Many many things in the MOMs are IMHO at best outdated and at worst just plain wrong . Also the long winded process to change them ( for such a minority sport ) is ridiculous . I think people in postions of power in the sport paid or vollenteers should be changed regulary like babies nappies and for the same reason 

This Forum gets regularly touted as a good medium of competitor opinion ( only today it has been suggested that the comments on this forum could have contributed to the abandonment of the classic nats by the club involved) .Yet when ever a contentious elidgibility issue is raised on here all you will ever get from MA officials is veiled sarcasm and inuendo , justified with comments like "this forum is not the place to discuss these issues " but no real help to resolve the issue or put it to bed officially

 

Mean while we have to work with what we have and if clubs stick to the rules and educate newcomers to the sport , while working to change the ridiculous rules or the system completley then surley that can only help .

[John Orchard]

You've been missing what I have been saying Bill, MOMS is MA, I am going outside MA so you can throw the MOMS in the bin!  Sure we can use it as a guide (let's not reinvent the wheel), I will draft up entry-form guidelines (sup-regs, not wanting to use ACU terminology) from input from you guys.

You gotta dream and think outside the square then take a chance.  I didn't ride at the Isle of Man TT, on the banking at Daytona, in World Superbike races, test bikes for Trail & Track, or even owning my own (small) MX track from it all falling in my lap, I dreamt it then I made it happen.

[John Orchard]

Ok the ball is 'rolling'  I have planted the seed at Winton MX Club and with a few prospective sponsors.

[TM BILL]

Sorry John if i missed that , then i sincerley wish you every succsess and hope you get the support to make it happen . The curent system is failing miserably at national level for whatever reason . MA shafting QVMX over their event shows that they are just another faceless organisation focused on how many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they can bleed from their members and completley out of touch with the reality of clubs trying to run events .

[albrid-3]

Ok the ball is 'rolling'  I have planted the seed at Winton MX Club and with a few prospective sponsors.

If it is to the best interest of your campaign towards Winton, when I was on the sub-committee for vintage motcross, at one meeting we meet the president of the Historic road racing, and he wanted us to run a round of the victorian vintage motocross championship rounds on the same weekend as the historic road racing rounds, it could have be done, we where all keen, but it fell flat and know one took it up. now if you where to approach them again it may be worth while, also the grand prix corporation wanted us to run a promotion race meeting at Philip Island on the same week end as the Moto 1 GP, that was back in 1998-99, when I was promoting VMX Magazine.
 

[Lozza]

If there is people whinging, I suggest you just not listen to them, because if it wasn't old bikes they would be whinging about something else. I went to Historic Road Race titles and The Island Classic failed to hear anybody whinge about anything(except for one rider who made the mistake of whinging to Tim Sanford at the titles). Island Classic had 350 or so competitiors from 4 countries with slightly different rules for each cut off, the numbers from the US and UK keep growing every year.
Just stop taking any notice of whingers and get on with enjoying old bikes.

[firko]

The only real whingeing about eligibility is on this forum. In the real world at the track there is very little dissent.

[albrid-3]

Who is whingeing, I am all for the currant rules,  pre 75 cut off dates are about the only issue that l have, and thats not going to change, so l don`t bother, and that is my personal issue. as it stands for all these years, I except all rules that is in place.

[Nathan S]

But yes is the answer. Purchase, borrow the correct bike for the event and its all ' Yes Man'.

Just another way of saying No.

We're stuck in this mentality of "more rules is better", and "stricter enforcement will fix it", when the opposite is true.

Quibbling over whether a modified RM-C swing arm is pre-78 is legal, or whether you need the operationally-identical optional RM-B alloy arm is a joke.
Say Yes, and all the bullshit goes away - with no actual bad points.

Wanting to kick a handful of 1985/86 models out of a non-competitive event achieves nothing but will surely drive people away. Continue to Say Yes to them (even quietly), and the problems go away.

The same is repeated time and again in the world of old dirt bikes: Metisse down tubes, 1974.5 KTM shock mounts, Yamaha TLS front brakes/fork legs, CZ sprocket mounting, 75 CR125 barrels, etc etc...
They're minor details in the big picture, but we spend (or have spent) WAAAAY too much time and effort worrying about them - to no benefit to anyone.

The main purpose of the VMX/Vinduro worlds should be riding and enjoying old bikes.
Instead, we've become an army of bush lawyers, all ready to mutter under our breaths about things that are "not right", while knowing that the transgression is trivial and has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the race (or non-competitive event, FFS).

There's been a couple of too-new bikes turn up to Retro rounds over the last couple of years. The organisers have Said Yes (but not to score championship points), knowing full well that the bikes weren't quite right.
And guess what? There was no bad point - another entry fee for the organisers, another membership for the club, another bike on the track, another smiling face at the end of the day. An inclusive attitude, not an exclusive one.
Even the old bogey man of "what if they ruin my race" has never eventuated, despite the "illegal bikes" being right up near the front most of the time (because they had competent riders, not because the CR125 had a HPP barrel on it...).

I'm not saying that we want to see 12" travel on pre-75 bikes, but there's just so much bullshit over nothing.

I did the CAMS scrutineering course many years ago. The trainer said something very important:
"You job is not to find faults. Your job is to get as many safe and fair cars onto the track as possible".
We have plenty of VMX scrutineers who understand this - the rot within comes from everywhere, certainly not just from (some) scrutineers.

[Nathan S]

The only real whingeing about eligibility is on this forum. In the real world at the track there is very little dissent.

People want certainty - confidence, at least. The rules as they are written do not provide that, especially coupled with the Say No attitude being quite common.

The current rules would be fine, if participants could reliably count on organisers making a genuine effort to accommodate them.
Imagine how fantastic is would be if someone asked "I think the forks on my RM are wrong - will this be a problem?", and everyone on the forum could confidently say "you'll get a ride mate. Just turn up and they'll sort you out - they'll love to see you there".

[Rossvickicampbell]

again Nathan - for non competitive events not a drama - that level of flexibility can't fit into something where people are racing for "sheep stations". And what is next - move the rules to accommodate your stance and then the next guy comes along, followed by the next guy etc.  Why bother at all.

Why not identify and change those that aren't correct rather than just ignoring the lot.  Why do we get away from the fact that a huge percentage of our followers have done the right thing, one way or the other and we want to accommodate those that don't.

I reckon all the 180 riders and 500 bikes at Conondale fell into the right categories with minimal fuss?

[Big Bird]

In my vmx fantasy world, we would have:
 - A clear set of regulations so that everyone knew exactly what was legal and what wasn't (one of my first posts here was on this topic, I am still none the wiser)
 - Competitors understanding and respecting officials, and vice versa
 - The wisdom to know when/where it is appropriate to take a stand, and when to let it go
This thread was primarily raised in regard to the final point. There is nothing more frustrating than to find some "me time" in this life, only for someone to see your free time as an opportunity to push their agenda.  A bit like that old school mate of mine who came around to catch up - and then pulled out his Amway presentation....
Cheers for the input all,
Geoff

[TM BILL]

So what did he sign you up for Geoff , the hand sanitizer and the washing powder