Author Topic: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders  (Read 47023 times)

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Offline Rosco86

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2013, 07:23:59 pm »
Foss can you remember when Don built the Alstar. I bought his centre port godden weslake in late 78 and raced it 79 and 80. Went to speedway in 81. Can't remember seeing the Alstar racing. Certainly looks the goods and I wonder whether Don built it or had someone fabricate it for him.
Rosco86

Offline Mick D

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2013, 07:43:53 pm »
I seem to remember "Cole" Slider Frames at Old Bar. Sometime during in the Seventies, I think. A pommy immigrant, rings a bell. Yes a  bloke by the name of Cole.
I am pretty sure they were taken to court for some sort of copyright issue.
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline JAP 454

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2013, 07:48:23 pm »
Rosco. that pic of the Alstar Yammy TT500, appeared in Trail and Track, August '76, the article is mainly about  Don's 4V JAP head, which has been covered on this forum.

In the article is this " Don built the frame, neatly chromed , and formed the engine mounts for the TT 500.
I don't know how many Don built, I bought an Alstar diamond of him to replace my Elstar diamond wrecked at Young. fitted straight in, no worries except for having to source a 19mm steering head bolt to suit the taper roller head bearings.
Foss
 

Offline JAP 454

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2013, 07:49:54 pm »
I seem to remember "Cole" Slider Frames at Old Bar. Sometime during in the Seventies, I think. A pommy immigrant, rings a bell. Yes a  bloke by the name of Cole.
I am pretty sure they were taken to court for some sort of copyright issue.

Howard Cole ??
Foss

Offline Mick D

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2013, 07:57:11 pm »
Yeah, I cant remember his first name, but I am certain they were called Cole Frames and I am also certain they were more or less an exact knock-off. I knew a bloke who had one and I am certain there was a Court Case over being a copy ???
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline JAP 454

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2013, 08:33:05 pm »
Mick D, What you may be remembering are these Cole engines, most internal parts were directly interchangeable with the corresponding JAP parts, there-in lay the problem you mention.
Mostly fitted to Elstar frames, there were a few around at one time, here is a pic of my Cole, incidently fitted to a Paul Sly Aussie built frame !!



Foss

Offline Mick D

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2013, 09:06:54 pm »
Wow what a beautiful bike, neat bit of history. Do you still have it?

Man, so much water under the bridge, it is so hard to remember.
The bloke that owned the bike I am talking about is father to a son-in-law of one of my exs, I would rather stick my dick in a hornets nest than ring her.

The bloke would be in well into his fifties, first name Mark. Surname ??(now I will be up all night trying to remember it).
He lives in Tarree, raced it a lot at Old Bar.

Yes I see what you mean about the engines, bloody beautiful, and it would explain it Foss, but I particularly remember it because Mark argued specifically that the frame was made by a pommy immigrant called Cole, descendent of a racing family in England. Where are the Cole engines from? England by any chance? If so? it might be the same family?
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline JAP 454

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2013, 09:19:27 pm »
Yes Mick, the Cole is a Pommy design, by a quirk of coincidence from my home town, Birmingham, If you google Howard Cole you'll find a video of him on a mini speedway bike, made by his father, at Birmingham Perry Barr Speedway when he was 4 or 5 years old
I think Howard is in OZ and I don't recollect any Cole frames, however ??
Foss

Offline Mick D

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2013, 09:29:54 pm »
Very Interesting, If I could remember this blokes surname I could call him. Anyhow,
there is another bloke up this way called Billy Rowlands that has also made a few slider frames(clever bloke). He was very sick last year with a rare exotic bug, took a lot to identify it. Thought he was a goner, but I bumped into him recently and he has it sorted and was on the way back up, even down in the workshop again doing an old Honda up to get his hand back in. He was thinking of making frames again with my mate Dave as being the gun welder.
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline firko

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2013, 09:49:29 pm »
Cole engines were British, made by Howard Cole Senior. His son moved to Australia and probably built the frames.

Howard Cole Senior was the Midlands distributor for JAP Speedway and Grass Track engines and also operated a repair and tuning service. Through his wealth of experience he knew all the strengths and weaknesses of the engine. The speedway JAP was prone to oil leaks and dirt could easily find its way inside the engine, often leading to a major mechanical breakdown? so, Cole designed and built his own speedway engine, based on the JAP unit.
 

He set himself a brief to make the engine more reliable than the JAP and to make an engine that needed less servicing. The Cole engine featured fully enclosed valve gear, stronger castings, a redesigned barrel with liners for the piston and the push-rods and a stronger steel con-rod, which had always been a weak spot on the JAP engine. Many of Cole's new parts were interchangeable with the JAP items.

Cole had three different cam profiles available for his engine and there was an option of having magneto or coil ignition. The coil equipped engine had a different timing case to house the points. The compression ratio could also be changed to suit the conditions by using one of three compression plates between the barrel and cylinder head .

The engine was readily available for the start of the 1972 season and cost ?185 for the coil ignition version or ?195 for the magneto version. The Cole engine found infamy in following years with the revelation that some engines actually measured 600cc!
[Images not available]

In previous years, Howard Cole Senior had produced a number of mini-speedway bikes for his motorcycle mad son, Howard Cole Junior. The first of these, produced in the 1940s, was a perfect scale replica of a post-war speedway chassis, right down to the miniature Webb forks. The most interesting feature of the bike though was the "lay-down" engine, a good forty years ahead of its time.
Howard Junior was the mascot at Birmingham and Wolverhampton speedway in the 40s and 50s, and would ride his mini-bikes wearing full leathers and a helmet bearing his initial "GHC" (his full name was George Howard Cole). Howard junior progressed to full size bikes and actually took to the track at the age of 15 under the assumed name of "Kid Bodie". Unfortunately for him, his headmaster was a keen speedway supporter and rumbled him. Once he had turned 16 Howard Cole Junior fulfilled his ambition to become a speedway rider, turning out for Wolverhampton, Stoke, Long Eaton (1965), Cradley Heath (1966), Kings Lynn (1967-1972) and back to Cradley again (1973-74) before retiring from the sport. His spell at Kings Lynn was his most successful, becoming a recognised heat leader and reaching the World Final in 1969. I have it on good authority that Howard Cole Junior has since emigrated to Australia where he works as a schoolteacher, I wonder if any of his pupils "bunk off" to race motorbikes?
 
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Offline Mick D

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2013, 10:02:32 pm »
Good work Firko. Its starting to make sense now, Thats what Marks argument was about, Marks bike was the other way around it had a Jap engine in it. The argument was that the frame was made by Cole not the engine and that was why he used to urgue with everyone about it I reckon ;D.


Actually there was another bloke up here, Mick Walker. Hell of an outfit captain, absolute wildman. Very clever at producing all sorts of frames, not just tricycles.

I think maybe the thing is that there may have been quite a few backyarders repairing, replacing and reproducing frames and frame components. especially speedway, sliders.

Think about it, these things don't exactly look as tough they would survive end for enders, or hitting the wall that well :-\ not even once without bending, would they? 
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline SON

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2013, 10:04:07 pm »
Very Interesting, If I could remember this blokes surname I could call him. Anyhow,
there is another bloke up this way called Billy Rowlands that has also made a few slider frames(clever bloke). He was very sick last year with a rare exotic bug, took a lot to identify it. Thought he was a goner, but I bumped into him recently and he has it sorted and was on the way back up, even down in the workshop again doing an old Honda up to get his hand back in. He was thinking of making frames again with my mate Dave as being the gun welder.
Would that be Bill Rawlinson from Newcastle "Rawlo" frames
Builder of many Junior speedway bikes
And straightener of my senior frames?

Offline Mick D

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2013, 10:08:31 pm »
Yeah, that's him SON, see the trouble I have with surnames ::) ;D
I must have been thinking of Yamaico Pete, Now theres another one!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:20:08 pm by Mick D »
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline matcho mick

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2013, 12:18:44 am »
i sold a cole jap engine at newcastle swap  um err back in the 80's for $150,kept the amc R gearbox for my matcho roadracer,remember a big guy, after me telling him $150 remarking 'shit i got a shedfull of that crap!!', ::), :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline SON

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Re: Aus/NZ aftermarket frame builders
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2013, 02:15:10 am »
I have several Rawlos,
Bill calls in about once a month depending on his. Or Joan's health.
Lots of good stuff in his shed,
Lots of good knowledge in his head,