Rules, who needs them?

[09.0]

Moral question for anyone that can be bothered answering…

If you have a 125 and you find out that it has been bored out to 150cc
Would you ride it in the 125 class or the 250 class?

250 class.
I bought a parts lot off a guy and there was a Yamaha (dt?) 175 barrel with the cc ground off. He proceeded to tell me he was going to put it on a 125....

[John Orchard]

Moral question for anyone that can be bothered answering…

If you have a 125 and you find out that it has been bored out to 150cc
Would you ride it in the 125 class or the 250 class?

It's only cheating if you get caught yeh?

No I would not run something as obvious as a 150 in the 125 class, I'd be uncomfortable running a 130cc but would if I only had that oversize piston available.

[Davey Crocket]

Going on past experiences Geoff.....depends if your Victorian or not.....the Ned Kelly's of Australia......and he was hanged wasnt he?....didnt tow the line....maybe thats what we should do on the forum?....choose your poison.....hanging/ the French way/ leathal injection of HL500 used sump oil/ stoned to death with Hodaka parts/ have your limbs ripped apart by Maico 490's (you might survive this one as they will probably break down )/ run over by a gaggle of chinesse chinka's /dragged by Wasp (probably break down too).

[Rookie#1]

Moral question for anyone that can be bothered answering…

If you have a 125 and you find out that it has been bored out to 150cc
Would you ride it in the 125 class or the 250 class?

Geoff!! Thankyou!! This is exactly the point i raise time after time whenever the eligibility of a particular bike or part on that bike is raised and debated until the cows come home!! Everybody worries soooo much about alloy swing arms and modern shock internals,, blah blah blah  but whenever i bring up the very same point as you have here it goes unheard. I could race a stock looking YZ250D in pre78 with 20,30 or more cc than stock and no one would ever know nor question me, but ride a bike with an alloy swing arm and they'll bit having fits in the pits!!!  

[mainline]

I ride a pe175 in the evo250 class. Despite the fact it has an RM125 seat and tank and most people wouldn't know, I couldn't ride it in  the 125 class.

[09.0]

If you want to cheat badly enough, it can be done. A cheats down fall is they also need to brag/ tell someone how clever they were in getting away with it. So only a small percentage would really get away with it.

I ride a pe175 in the evo250 class. Despite the fact it has an RM125 seat and tank and most people wouldn't know, I couldn't ride it in  the 125 class.

I did the same on Bills bike in NZ. It was in the same guise.

[TM BILL]

If you want to cheat badly enough, it can be done. A cheats down fall is they also need to brag/ tell someone how clever they were in getting away with it. So only a small percentage would really get away with it.

I ride a pe175 in the evo250 class. Despite the fact it has an RM125 seat and tank and most people wouldn't know, I couldn't ride it in  the 125 class.

I did the same on Bills bike in NZ. It was in the same guise.

He did and he smoked em 

[vandy010]

   I could race a stock looking YZ250D in pre78 with 20,30 or more cc than stock and no one would ever know nor question me, but ride a bike with an alloy swing arm and they'll bit having fits in the pits!!!  

foolish train of thought.
hopefully a protest will land on your lap for all to see...
somethings stick out like dogs balls (external parts) and some dont (internal parts).
thats exactly why some folk get away with things for longer than others and some never get caught.
 to knowingly flaunt an obvious inelidgable (spell check) part/machine and expect for the rules to bend to you is in my opinion against all our sport stands for.
i've read too many of your posts Rookie...
fool
i'm off to the shed to bolt some upside down forks onto my XT600...

[mainline]

If you want to cheat badly enough, it can be done. A cheats down fall is they also need to brag/ tell someone how clever they were in getting away with it. So only a small percentage would really get away with it.

I ride a pe175 in the evo250 class. Despite the fact it has an RM125 seat and tank and most people wouldn't know, I couldn't ride it in  the 125 class.

I did the same on Bills bike in NZ. It was in the same guise.

He did and he smoked em 

Yeah, I'm always up the front too    

[Viper666]

Cmon, guys. Isn't our sport mostly about fun?

I personally would not know what arm is allowed on what bike & don't particularly care.

I would not know the difference riding with Moly versus Alloy swing arm & I bet 99% of other riders wouldn't either.

To the spirit of the rules sums it up. We (Viper) use to let YZ125G (1980) run in the pre 80 125 class even though they were a big step up from the E & F.
Didn't care. Used to do the same for the 1980 RM125. Again, didn't care. (Yes, I rode that class) (Used to get hosed by a guy on a 73 CR)

I suppose for Nationals & the like we need a "Line in the sand" but for interclub, like Viper for example but I am not speaking for them, some "Own Rules" could apply.

My view, if it doesn't give a huge advantage, let it go. Alloy arm looks better but could most of us tell the difference? I think not.

Leaving Evo aside, if it was available for that model, OK then. Not talking about what works bikes had on them, what was available to production bikes. Did someone in the day put Yamaha forks on a RM? Possibly but why?

We let people go overboard with engine internals, fork mods (emulators), suspension kits (Race tech valving etc.), new wheels & spokes (stronger & lighter than OEM) etc. etc. etc.

I realsie lots of stuff is no longer available & it would be stupid to stop someone riding just because they had a 2013 clutch lever & I also realsie this is allowed for as a incidental part & can be used.

What is to stop someone buying a 1975 lathe & milling machine & making lots of stuff as I'm sure some did. As I said, spirit of the rules", & line in the sand. Weren't DT's air cooled, drum brake etc. till 1991?

[09.0]

I do t think rookie meant it that way. More as a comparison

If you want to cheat badly enough, it can be done. A cheats down fall is they also need to brag/ tell someone how clever they were in getting away with it. So only a small percentage would really get away with it.

I ride a pe175 in the evo250 class. Despite the fact it has an RM125 seat and tank and most people wouldn't know, I couldn't ride it in  the 125 class.

I did the same on Bills bike in NZ. It was in the same guise.

He did and he smoked em 

Yeah, I'm always up the front too    

I always see you in front of me!

[mainline]

I do t think rookie meant it that way. More as a comparison

If you want to cheat badly enough, it can be done. A cheats down fall is they also need to brag/ tell someone how clever they were in getting away with it. So only a small percentage would really get away with it.

I ride a pe175 in the evo250 class. Despite the fact it has an RM125 seat and tank and most people wouldn't know, I couldn't ride it in  the 125 class.

I did the same on Bills bike in NZ. It was in the same guise.

He did and he smoked em 

Yeah, I'm always up the front too    

I always see you in front of me!

Three or four times during a race

[Viper666]

I too ran a 175 in a 125 frame but it was my 2nd bike for which I rode 250, evo, etc.

It was an IT175 motor, that from the outside were almost identical to the 125, in a YZ125E frame.

The only reason I did it was because I couldn't afford, or find, a 250 at the time. I honestly believe not many, if any, would have picked it. We had a guy who had a TL125 which he had stretched to 185, we let him ride the 125 class because it almost made the bike competitive. He had fun, main thing.

[firko]

I could easily have raced my 325cc Maico in the 250 class but I guess my Catholic Marist Brothers education in moral accountability prevented me from doing it. I will however put my hand up and admit to racing my 350 Maico in the 250 class at a Penrith club day back in 1991 or so but I was that paranoid that someone would spot it (it's easy if you know what to look for) I blabbed it to everyone who'd listen. The opportunity to build a 175cc cheater recently motor arose when going through the stash of MX125 engines and parts destined for out pre 78 Trackmaster framed special, I found a clean MX175 barrel. The guy I got the stash from had raced his MX 125(disguised as a YZ) with the 175 barrel in the 125 class for years and only removed it after his son, the guy actually riding the bike, complained that he hated cheating. I know of a couple of stroker MX250 based 320cc bikes racing back in the early vintage days and how many XL250 Hondas are taken out to 305cc?............It all comes down to how much you're prepared to sacrifice morals in a bid for podium glory.

[Rookie#1]

   I could race a stock looking YZ250D in pre78 with 20,30 or more cc than stock and no one would ever know nor question me, but ride a bike with an alloy swing arm and they'll bit having fits in the pits!!!  

foolish train of thought.
hopefully a protest will land on your lap for all to see...
somethings stick out like dogs balls (external parts) and some dont (internal parts).
thats exactly why some folk get away with things for longer than others and some never get caught.
 to knowingly flaunt an obvious inelidgable (spell check) part/machine and expect for the rules to bend to you is in my opinion against all our sport stands for.
i've read too many of your posts Rookie...
fool
i'm off to the shed to bolt some upside down forks onto my XT600...

Dear Vandy, give up the name calling. Suprisingly enough it was Brad who pointed out to the manner in which my post was intended to be comprehended. Thanks Brad, think I'll sit this one out from here on in.