Author Topic: Rules, who needs them?  (Read 16799 times)

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Offline 09.0

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Rules, who needs them?
« on: March 31, 2013, 09:03:05 pm »
The rule book is questioned on a regular basis, particularly at the moment. The old alloy optional arm that has been has been done 20 to the power of 10 times thus far. Then in another thread about being able to use 43mm forks out of a pre 85 bike because there are legal ones in the form of a Yamaha, so why not the 43's out of a cr. Basically the same thing. Then there is the one that is a real ripper in my eyes and unbelievable that one would actually even contemplate let alone ask on a public forum and that is making a 91 model ATK into an evo bike.
I for one am sick to my back teeth of people bitching on here about the rules we have and will sit in front of their P.C. for hours on end to argue the point yet won't do anything about it to change the rule/s that are supposedly so wrong.
So the optional arm is legal. Passionate about it? Want to run yours? Do something about it. And on a side note to that, there WILL be another 20 hoping it does become legal so they can run that once unusable c swingarm sitting in the corner, just waiting to get modified.
Now the 43mm fork example. I kind of agree that there would be little advantage, especially if using an '81 450 front end or even an '82. I do feel there would be an advantage if an '83 250/480 front end was used as they are a better fork and brake than an '81 yz250/465. But aside from that, the big picture, forest for the trees mentality, which does not seem to be thought about and clearly that is because of the personal agenda of the person that wants the rule change or a relaxing of the rule because he has that front end sitting in the corner ready to bolt into his cr250 for e.g. But the main reason from my perspective, as I have no agenda, is that with every little relaxation or part that really shouldn't be on the bike turns into the next gaol post that can be moved. In the end, it's Dutch twin shock ( which should be Euro twin shock as they seem to be all doing it). So after letting the 83 front end slide, the next guy will cut the disc mounts of a set of huge conventionals and retro fit a drum brake front end on. Then another guy will turn up with his non linkage 91 model ATK with mod's to 'fit' the evo criteria. Evo is a technology class to cover the range of twin shock bikes that a year cut off cannot do. Clearly that was why it is that way but there are those that want to look at the rules to suit themselves, then interpret the rules to try and suit their own agenda. Looking at their bike that common sense says doesn't fit in,as a lawyer and trying to manipulate the wording to make it acceptable to have a bike fit in the class they want to run it in.
This also extends to era's and riding up classes which was the last straw for me writing this. Again there are eras written into the rulebook.To separate them.
that is the essence of vmx. pre75 bikes racing together etc etc. Not some all in bring one bike because it's too much work to run two or wash or prep or can't afford vmx meeting. I know only too well I'm not going to win friends with this post and why is that? Opinionated? A prick? Some guys and Victoria will say yes but hey, shit happens. It's so obvious (to me at least) that this is the only real problem with the rules as they stand, bar a few small tweaks such as the alloy rm arm say.Yes there will be others but this is not what the post is about.
Now I've used actual posts as examples and I don't even know some of these guys and am not writing this as a personal attack on the person but more on the mind set of them and others that agree for whatever their reason is.
So, try your hardest to make your own opinion count rather than a bitch....
And read it twice so you don't go off half cocked.
Happy Easter!  :-*

maico police

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 09:32:56 pm »
To quote someone from this this very forum.....

Uhumm (Clear the throat)

Someone hasn't been taking their pills.

End quote.

 :)

Offline Ted

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 09:37:53 pm »
You quite finished.

RE : 1977 Suzuki RM 125 B optional aluminium arm. " Passionate about it, Want to run yours? , Do something about it." Your words.

 What do you think I have been doing the last 3 months? I have had one meeting with a very high ranking MA official to date ( who by the way cannot see a problem with it) I have two oral testimonials saying they had this arm fitted in 1977. I have 2 parts catalogues  1976 and 1977 showing its existence since November 1976. I have numerous photos of B models fitted with this arm. I have even sent Suzuki Japan an email seeking availability prior to 1978. So you see Brad I have done a bit more than just sit here and type away.

Sure you can pick holes in this , anybody could. What I am trying to do is prove it is either legal or it is'nt. Nothing more. Nothing less

I am not interested in debating this post, just letting you know how it is

Regards

Ted Brack
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline 09.0

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 10:13:50 pm »
I don't know you Ted let alone know what you are up to. This particular debate started in at least 2009, most probably earlier. To be honest I wasn't singling you out either. There are lots of guys that are angry about this particular item and are prepared to spend hours on here bitching about it but have not taken the steps. I see you only joined in 2012 so maybe you haven't been part of the forum long enough to have been witness at a guess. Good for you in taking the steps.

To quote someone from this this very forum.....

Uhumm (Clear the throat)

Someone hasn't been taking their pills.

End quote.

 :)
Is that it? Can you actually post anything with substance?

Offline Rookie#1

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 12:18:59 am »
I know only too well I'm not going to win friends with this post and why is that? Opinionated? A prick? Some guys and Victoria will say yes but hey, shit happens.


Opinionated? A prick? Well one who phrases themselves to be taking on an entire state.....yeah people could be forgiven for thinking exactly that of you. You suggest we "read your post twice before going off half cocked", I can only offer the same advice.  :)

Regards, Brendan
THE SEXMAX.....coming soon to an Evo race near you!!! Lining up right along side the soon to be released TEDMAX!!!


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Offline bishboy

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 12:52:13 am »
Then there is the one that is a real ripper in my eyes and unbelievable that one would actually even contemplate let alone ask on a public forum and that is making a 91 model ATK into an evo bike.
Now I've used actual posts as examples and I don't even know some of these guys and am not writing this as a personal attack on the person but more on the mind set of them and others that agree for whatever their reason is.

I debated whether to reply to this or not, but as the above was my post I thought it might be better to explain the reasoning behind my post.  My initial post was done in what I thought was a tongue in cheek fashion and I thought others would be able to see it that way, but obviously I was wrong. 
I realise the written word makes it hard to convey some subtleties, maybe I should have used more emoticons ::) ;D ;)

Now as Brad says he doesn't know me, but what sh#ts me is that he knows even less about my mind set.

I know I don't have the "cred" of others on the forum, but I do know what the basics of the rules are and would defer to the rules and those on here who are more knowledgeable than myself before proceeding with any modifications and I would never present a bike that I knew didn't comply with the letter or the spirit of the rules.

Also, what is the issue of riding up a class?  If it fills the grid, but not at the expense of actual bikes for that class, what is the issue?  Not everyone can afford or justify 2, 3 or 4 bikes.
 
I hope this gives some clarity around the reasoning behind my initial post.

Andrew
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 12:56:28 am by bishboy »

Offline paul

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 07:40:54 am »
april 1  ;D

maico police

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 08:13:45 am »

Is that it? Can you actually post anything with substance?


Because that's all it deserves. I pretty much answered you in the other thread about riding an EVO bike in pre 85.

I think you're actually going off the deep end fella. At the end of the day 99% of us moron Victorians couldn't give a fork as to what swingarm is on whoever's bike.

This is a non professional sport. Nobody is going to get a ticker-tape parade for winning the 2013 pre 65, one legged, leading link 175 class. We do it for fun.
As much as you bunch love casting aspersions as to my mental state I'm quite happy that I don't make vintage motocross bikes my entire existence or spend all night in front of the computer (instead of spending the night with the wife) delivering some long winded, self-absorbed wank about how the rest of the world is so forked up because people don't share the same obsessed view on VMX as I do.
Don't rubbish us for how we run our state series. Mind your own f ucking business.

Offline 09.0

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 08:18:24 am »
Then there is the one that is a real ripper in my eyes and unbelievable that one would actually even contemplate let alone ask on a public forum and that is making a 91 model ATK into an evo bike.
Now I've used actual posts as examples and I don't even know some of these guys and am not writing this as a personal attack on the person but more on the mind set of them and others that agree for whatever their reason is.

I debated whether to reply to this or not, but as the above was my post I thought it might be better to explain the reasoning behind my post.  My initial post was done in what I thought was a tongue in cheek fashion and I thought others would be able to see it that way, but obviously I was wrong. 
I realise the written word makes it hard to convey some subtleties, maybe I should have used more emoticons ::) ;D ;)

Now as Brad says he doesn't know me, but what sh#ts me is that he knows even less about my mind set.

I know I don't have the "cred" of others on the forum, but I do know what the basics of the rules are and would defer to the rules and those on here who are more knowledgeable than myself before proceeding with any modifications and I would never present a bike that I knew didn't comply with the letter or the spirit of the rules.

Also, what is the issue of riding up a class?  If it fills the grid, but not at the expense of actual bikes for that class, what is the issue?  Not everyone can afford or justify 2, 3 or 4 bikes.
 
I hope this gives some clarity around the reasoning behind my initial post.

Andrew
It was obvious I was going to get you off side by including you. You wrote that you wanted to fit a bike that for one doesn't fit in the vintage scene as it stands but also to go as far as putting it in Evo which is just wrong. So you are saying it was tongue in cheek? Ok. In the same way you then want to ride it in pre 90, as a flow on, the same could be said to lots of 90 model bikes I would think. Technology wasn't changing in the way it was in the early eras. From my side of the pc all I see is someone that wants to buy a 91 but jam it in somewhere so he can ride a bike he has / wants to throw money at.
I thought I explained my view regarding riding up a class. Vmx in it's essence is era racing. Most get that but some others just want a cheap ride. You can only afford one bike or only want to wash one bike? Great, so come racing with your one bike and ride the one class. In the two clubs up here, BMCC will have an evo class and then an all in evo class etc. They only cater up to evo so have some room to move. QVMX has a one bike class, for those with one bike.
Even in modern mx you don't see anyone riding up a class. Vmx is as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be.  'I can't afford more than one bike' is not an argument, it's just your financial status.


Offline 09.0

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 08:26:34 am »

Is that it? Can you actually post anything with substance?


Because that's all it deserves. I pretty much answered you in the other thread about riding an EVO bike in pre 85.

I think you're actually going off the deep end fella. At the end of the day 99% of us moron Victorians couldn't give a fork as to what swingarm is on whoever's bike.

This is a non professional sport. Nobody is going to get a ticker-tape parade for winning the 2013 pre 65, one legged, leading link 175 class. We do it for fun.
As much as you bunch love casting aspersions as to my mental state I'm quite happy that I don't make vintage motocross bikes my entire existence or spend all night in front of the computer (instead of spending the night with the wife) delivering some long winded, self-absorbed wank about how the rest of the world is so forked up because people don't share the same obsessed view on VMX as I do.
Don't rubbish us for how we run our state series. Mind your own f ucking business.
Fair enough. Seems I've done the wrong thing again. I must say that I am very passionate about the sport I love and winning a trophy has nothing to do with it. I'm fond of anything I like. If I pull this thread now I would feel like a coward though. I mean what I say. I think it would be a crying shame if the scene got watered down just to get bums on seats, be it cutting a bike up to fit an era, too late a bike to fit anywhere, or all in run what you brung deal. Maybe too passionate. 
Maybe I will let others vent at me to be fair and let those have their two cents worth, then lock it down and let it die a quick death.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:29:42 am by 090 »

Offline Paul552

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 08:42:46 am »
april 1  ;D

Best post in this thread
'77 YZ125D '84 CR250RE '89 CR250RK '84 CR80RE  '09 YZ250F

Offline oldyzman

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 08:57:27 am »
I really do not have an opinion weather B should be able to run an ally swingarm as i don't know enough about the the translation of the rules or about RM125B .
What i have seen in other forms of motorcycle competition is when rules are changed every season it creates a lot of financial burden on the bike owners to swap things to and fro either to bring the bike within the new rules or to upgrade the bike to remain competitive. In my view, this happened a bit in the screamin eagle drag racing series over the past 10 years or so. End result: coupled with other influences this year there is no separate drag racing series for Harleys.
Brett
I have a soft spot japanese mxers with aluminium tanks. Two stroke classic Dirt Track...

Offline motomaniac

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 10:38:41 am »


To quote someone from this this very forum.....

Uhumm (Clear the throat)

Someone hasn't been taking their pills.

End quote.

 :)
Is that it? Can you actually post anything with substance?

[/quote]

 :DThats pretty funny since he was quoting yourself. Says it all really :D

Offline 09.0

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 10:53:42 am »
For sure it was.
 I still feel I have valid points. It was also to much to ask for at least some serious discussion on the matter it seems. Are they too valid that the best defence is to shoot me down on a personal level straight up? I did say the same to you (pills) after pages of you complaining about the arm not being legal and why. I agree it should be legal but we all know by now that complaining on here is not what needs to be done to change it. The alloy arm on here was due to that thread and the here we go again. Looks like Ted is onto it so hopefully it will finally be put to bed.

Offline suzuki59

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Re: Rules, who needs them?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 11:09:09 am »
Is this an opportunity to debate a subject close to many hearts in Australia ?! or just an opportunity for the usual "suspects" to throw shit and gain revenge for past battles lost??