Author Topic: Portinghelp 490  (Read 9891 times)

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Offline ola_martin

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Portinghelp 490
« on: March 11, 2013, 08:33:09 pm »
I bought this cylinder for my 490, from a known German Maico specialist, it has a NOS liner fitted. But it all looks a bit unfinished...  >:(

I looks like it's fitted a little turned to one side, so I guess I have to heat it up and turn it a little..? Any idea of temperature needed, I use a normal kitchen stove..

Also it looks like I need to clean up the ports, can I just grind the liner so it fits the channels in the cylinder nicely??
What do I do at the bottom end of it? 

Grateful for any help or similar photos of good cylinders....















« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 08:35:47 pm by ola_martin »

Offline 09.0

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 08:51:02 pm »
Looks miss aligned to start with.

Offline Lozza

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 12:40:19 pm »
I see no real problems there , the port windows in sleeves are always undersize, they would be to weak if they were correctly dimensioned. The missalignment comes from when the sleeve gets pressed in as the sleeve has a habit of twisting as it goes in (for reasons unexplained). After the rebore just match the cylinder to the sleeve and sand the exhaust bridge a little.
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline KTMaico

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 01:11:27 pm »
Ola Hola,
            The liner you have is for the Reed Valve and your cylinder is standard piston port. After re-alingning the cylinder clean up the ports and champfer the ports to stop any ring sticking. Most importantly I would fit your piston in the cylinder on the connecting rod and mark your piston with a permanent marker through the exhaust port. Doing this it will show where the bridge is in relation to your piston. With this information you can drill 3-4 holes in line going from just under rings down to above the piston squirt. This will help lubricate the exhaust bridge and stop a seizure. I have done this on my Maico 490 and I would also suggest if you are using a non dry film coated piston (Wossner coated Wiseco un-coated) to get the piston dry film coated. Added insurance.

Kevin
1981 Maico 490 (Special Build)
1979 Husqvarna CR250
1975 Suzuki RH250
1975 Suzuki RM125 S
1959 Mk1 Jaguar 3.4 4 speed manual with O/Drive

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 01:17:13 pm »
All the piston port liners seem to have the reed valve windows in them, mine is the same.

Offline ola_martin

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 04:56:23 pm »
Thank you very much! ;)

But do you meen realigning by heating up and try to twist, or just matching the ports. Some places the twisted liner exposes a small bit of the cylinder wall next to the port...

I already have the Wossner piston...

Should I do anything to the liner at the bottom where the gasses comes up from the cases?

Offline KTMaico

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 06:34:33 pm »
Ola,
       As John said his barrel is the same, mine is the same liner too, I would take it to a specialist and get it re-aligned. I am not sure if this is a job to be done at home. Are you running a standard head?

Kevin
1981 Maico 490 (Special Build)
1979 Husqvarna CR250
1975 Suzuki RH250
1975 Suzuki RM125 S
1959 Mk1 Jaguar 3.4 4 speed manual with O/Drive

Offline ola_martin

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 06:45:22 pm »
Yes I have a NOS head.

I have a oven that I use for heating cases to change bearings, once I heated a Huskycylinder to make the fins a bit softer before I straightend them, and when I took it out the liner almost fell out, wasn't very hot, under 200*C.... So I figured I could just do the same to the Maico and try to twist the liner, mabe it isn't so easy??

Offline Lozza

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 12:17:32 am »
Will depend on the interference fit between cylinder and liner, how easy it will come out and how much it will twist going back in.
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline ola_martin

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 12:37:49 am »
Ok, Lozza, so you think I shouldn't bother, and just match the ports like it is now? I would have to take some alu. of the cylinder in some places to get it smooth though...

Offline Mick D

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 01:39:43 am »


That is an absolute shit job Ola. Shame. I am really really busy, but I can not sit back and watch you be talked into adding even more mutilation. It already has the makings of an abomination, don't feed it. It is so easy to fix Ola.

Do it, like you have done all of the rest of the fine work that you have presented on here, Proudly and properly.

Firstly, do you have a hydraulic press reasonably close to your oven? and do you have access to a metal working center lathe with a spindle bore of all least 12mm?
 
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline ola_martin

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 01:54:06 am »
Yes I do, all of those things ;D

And if you're thinking what I'have been thinking, I'm sure that liner can be guided and locked in place while it cools off... ;)

But I'll be very grateful for your advice!

Offline Mick D

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 04:18:20 am »
Good on you Ola, sounds like you have it sussed ;)

Couple of things that come to mind. If you are going to make a guide bars, trust me, you should make and use five of them. Make sure the M8 x 1.25 pitch you cut into the end of the 12mm guide bars are done in the lathe with a spirex tap mounted in the tail stock of course(keeps everything true). Obviously make sure that before you cut the threads to relief counter-bore them to a depth of the length of the head stud shoulder +1.0mm. This will not only alloy them to screw all the way on, but also save you needlessly cutting extra thread into the end of them. Face the end, so that they nip up squarely and perpendicular to machined alloy face of the cylinder top. No need to over tighten them. Doesn't hurt to machine a slight tapper on the opposite end of the guide bars either, as a lead-in off course. Just makes it quicker and easier when dropping the liner into place on the way from the oven to the press.

You can machine up a stepped pushing plate if you please? I prefer to use dual plates with a very snug fitting center-bolt to amalgamate. Very important to leave the job in the press under pressure as it cools to ambient. Make sure to support as much of the liner hat as possible. The OD of the the pressing re-entery push (tool)plate should be as great as possible to extend just about all the way out to the guide bars. That way the liner hat is supported when pushed firmly home, onto the area against the top of the cylinder.

For optimum heat transfer between the two, you want a minimum shrink fit of 0.006", but no more than a max of 0.014".
To prevent heavy galling, break all sharp cylinder and liner port edges with a bit of 600 grit, just a mick hair.  I have the measured liner ready with a film of loctite brand "nickel based anti sieze". Some will tell you to use special heat sink grease to aid heat transfer to the "Alloy atmospheric heat exchanger"(cylinder), but in the case of Maico's high aluminum content casting, they use the heaviest permissible shrink-fit interference allowable between these two dissimilar metals to actually engineer the max transmission of heat between the two materials.

Remember to do a test run, to have all your tooling and gloves set up ready. Do a dry run from the oven to the press. I do it in the house too, up to 250 degree, no problems.
 
And most of all remember that prior preparation will prevent a piss poor performance.

If you would like to share any more thoughts before you get to the port trimming stage? just say.

PS; If your lathe is big enough? It is a really good idea to true the base surface of the cylinder by fly cutting it at the finish of the job.
 
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline KTMaico

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 11:20:24 am »
Mick De,
           You know your $#!^ by the sounds of it, it is so good to know there is expertise out there that are willing to share and offer up good advice. Good Onya Sir Mick De.

Kevin
1981 Maico 490 (Special Build)
1979 Husqvarna CR250
1975 Suzuki RH250
1975 Suzuki RM125 S
1959 Mk1 Jaguar 3.4 4 speed manual with O/Drive

Offline ola_martin

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Re: Portinghelp 490
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 06:49:20 pm »
Thank you VERY much! ;D
My offer to pick up and drop of you tank was peanuts compared to this info....

I'll get on with it the next days then...

I have the oven in my shed, 4m from the press...

And I'd love some porting help when that time comes, these 490's are new to me, and it's going to be my first VMX racer. The other bikes I've built have just been put on their stand to look at, so I'd like performance to be good on this one.