Newtown CT shool shootings.

[Lozza]

Malcom Turnbull crueling his chances to be PM.

[Mike52]

Malcom cruelled his chances back when he couldn't figure out what he stood for and what party he supported.
He might be lucky with the Auzzie short term memory loss.

[Rusty]

The Yanks have a real problem with gun control.
The problem is that they don't trust their government and with good reason .
Those old enough to remember will recall the National Guard being ordered to shoot University demonstrators.
Yep a real problem when your own government starts shooting you.

That is most certainly one of the over-riding issues.

I used to have several guns when I was in the states.  I had target rifles, hand guns and shotguns - however they were all for target use and being where I could have been drafted they were to help me keep my eye in so that I could maintain my grading earned when doing ROTC at school.
While I am of the personal belief that banning guns is just too big of a job I am strongly opposed to the ability of a private person to buy/own a sniper rifle (M21, M50, Barrett 50cal etc) and also any fully automatic weapon.  Hell, with modern technology there is little need for semi-automatic weapons for hunting either.

When it comes to the root cause - I blame the free market.  The same free market that enables 13-17 yr old kids to buy alcohol and drink themselves senseless week after week as happens here in NZ, over in Oz and also stateside.  Gun laws in America need to be vastly changed and the most important change is to shut down a lot of the shady type gun shops and to enact a law that REQUIRES a 48 hour wait period before collecting a weapon purchase to allow more thorough checks to be done.
However, to stop a lot of the crap that is happening we really need to go back to the family group.  In just about every case that happens we hear that friends and family thought the person was a bit weird and a lot of the time knew the people were borderline psycotic - those people NEED to start speaking up.

[crash n bern]

Banning guns will just open up the market for illegal guns.  So far prohibition hasn't proven itself to work.

I lay the bigger blame on society, screaming out for the banning of guns wont fix a society that has a festering wound. 
All those producers of violent movies and video games who care more about profit margins than any moral obligation to the society we live in have some to answer for.  Life emulates art.

I grew up in a era of war and western movies, but there was no graphic violence.  There was a clear line of right and wrong.  I saw an interview with Clint Eastwood where he mentioned that a director asked John Wayne to shoot some one in the back.  JW flat refused to do it, and the director said "Well Clint would do it" JW replied with "That kid will do anything".  The point is there was always a strong moral content with a lot of the old shows, whereas today the most brutal, cold hearted and violent character is the hero, whether he's the good guy or the bad guy is irrelavant.  The most popular video games are all violent, and brutally so.  And this is reflected now in society.  Young bloke's don't have a bit of a fist fight and who ever gets knocked down has lost and then buy each other beers.  They jump some one and beat him half or in some cases to death because they are emulating what they watch.
They will cut a love scene out of a movie but will show a bloke getting his throat cut with a knife.  Seriously, do we need to see that.  Imagine children growing up with that and getting conditioned to it.  Society needs to police itself better. Another problem is the loss of community, and with that, people become disenfranchised. We interact with each other less and less and this is a perfect example here, there's no face to face as social media takes over and our lives are busier and busier as we tear around trying to pay for it all.



I think banning guns is the small picture.  We should start at the top and ban  all nuclear weapons first, then all chemical and biological weapons, then all military weapons and work our way down.  It will be much easier to convince people to give up their guns if the government surrenders theirs first.  Lead by example.

I wonder how many innocent children were killed in the war against terroism?

[YZ250H]

Beautifully put 

It worries me what sort of society my 3 young kids are going to have to grow up in.

[Rosco]

As a person who has been going to the States for over 30 years and lived Fulltime and part time for another 13 years I felt I had to send this email from my x policeman mate

to all the Australian News Papers. and after all the fallout and the horrendous tragedy of the Newtown Massacre, and now the subsequent # 1 stories of Gun controls,

please read the below perspective from a California 35 Year Retired Police Veteran, his thoughts also needs to be told and shared, to present a level field and not knee –jerk reaction to Guns,

also take note of the bottom link to the Seven Myths and Profile of a Mass Murderer.


Unspeakable.

What could have driven Adam Lanza to force his way into an elementary school and do what he did? Everyone in this Country, from our president on down, wept looking at the faces of six year-old children who were butchered by this loner.

Now comes the inevitable cry to "do something meaningful" to prevent further school carnage. This of course means somehow changing the U.S. Constitution to amend this Country's firearms laws. "The NRA runs the Country, and this has to change".

Before we jump head-long in to irreversible change to a fundamental right, we need to examine the facts, not regulate out of hysteria.

According to CBS news, there have been eighty-eight persons killed on school campus's in America in the last 20 years. While we all look at the faces of those helpless victims of Lansa's warped outrage and vow to never let that happen again, remember that statistically the most dangerous part of a child's school day is the ride to and from school in Mom's car.

Tens of thousands of schools, millions of school children, eight-eight deaths.

Eighty-eight people. Less then the highway fatality rate of a typical New Years eve weekend in California.

Don't misunderstand what I'm trying to point out here, every one of those eighty-eight lives was precious and needlessly wasted, but do the figures however horrific speak to an epidemic of gun violence when you recall there are three hundred million guns in this Country that aren't being used to murder school children? Is President Obama weeping at the thought of school kids killed by drunk drivers and demanding a "change" to laws regulating alcohol consumption?

A gun is a tool. In the wrong hands it can be a tool of destruction. A tool like the two airliners flown into the World Trade Center to kill three thousand Americans on 9/11.
We all cried that day too, but no one demanded that commercial aviation avoid large population centers!

Let's get back to the NRA. I'm a retired police officer with 35 years experience on the tough streets of a large Bay Area city. I have carried a firearm day and night all those years, and no, I don't think the NRA represents the majority of clear-thinking Americans when the NRA objects to the possession of "Cop Killer" bullets or machine guns. The NRA can be just as hysterical as an "anything goes" proponent as the anti-gun faction on the other side of the argument. Just like most things in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of this debate.

It's interesting to note that one of the first states to have experienced a campus murder spree was Stockton, California. California has nearly one thousand laws on the books regulating or banning firearm possession and those laws and rules did nothing to prevent that murder spree. All additional laws and regulations do is allow a prosecutor to add an additional charge post-incident. No one who is of the mindset of Adam Lanza is going to comply with firearms restrictions. It's a worn-out adage, but "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". Note that not one single Oakland "gang banger" turned-in his Uzi during last weekends firearm-surrender program in the East Bay. Instead three hundred law abiding citizens gave up their guns for the greater good. What was accomplished? A few people felt better about themselves but not a single life is going to be saved by that program. The outlaws still have their guns!

Rather than banning the tool, its time we recognized when that high school loner is acting stranger than usual. Where are all the neighbors who report "I knew that guy was weird" when interviewed after a mass shooting. Why didn't they realize he was acting weird before he stole his mother's guns and massacred a first grade class of children?

My suggestion is this; take a step back and a deep breath, don't regulate out of hysteria, and tell someone in charge when that loner is acting strangely.

http://blog.oup.com/2012/09/seven-myths-of-mass-murder/

[Iain Cameron]

Rosco that was very interesting (7 myths )

[Lozza]

 Rather odd t way a copper talks about drink driving, one would assume the US has similar drink driving laws to ours, all aimed at preventing actions which are highly likely innocent people going about their daily business to get injured or killed. You can consume all the alcohol you want but not get in a vehicle and drive while under the influence(not even a horse). That's what the law is about again rather odd a copper doesn't understand that.
Society ain't to blame nor a video games, death metal or the internet. Anti-gun lobby deosn't have celebrity endorsments and millions upon millions of dollars poured into mostly Republican politicians to influence decisions.

[crash n bern]

Rather odd t way a copper talks about drink driving, one would assume the US has similar drink driving laws to ours, all aimed at preventing actions which are highly likely innocent people going about their daily business to get injured or killed. You can consume all the alcohol you want but not get in a vehicle and drive while under the influence(not even a horse). That's what the law is about again rather odd a copper doesn't understand that.
Society ain't to blame nor a video games, death metal or the internet. Anti-gun lobby deosn't have celebrity endorsments and millions upon millions of dollars poured into mostly Republican politicians to influence decisions.

The U.S. doesn't have RBT, and they can't pull you over without due cause.  So a driver has to be basically weaving down the road to be pulled over for a sobriety test.  If he fails then he has to get a blood alcohol test.  But even with the drink driving laws, it doesn't stop people from doing it. Just like banning drugs doesn't stop people from using them, and banning guns wont stop people from owning them.

I do believe in tighter regulations, I think a contributing factor in the U.S. is that they leave their guns lying around.  I worked it Texas and all my co workers had a handgun in their draw at work.  No big deal except for one bloke who had a prescription abuse problem, was constantly stressed and had had a run in with me.  He shouldn't have had a gun. The point there is that I had access to handguns, they didn't take them home, so on their RDO's I could of helped myself.  It would of ended up like a missing pen scenario.
 But anyway if they kept them locked in safes it might slow things up a bit.  Some states have strict gun laws, some you can rock up at Kmart show your state drivers license and walk out with a handgun.

At the end of the day I'm just a keyboard speculator like everyones else and don't know the answers I can only throw opinions around.

[IT400C]

Only sort of related to this topic (and associated directions that the conversation has taken..)

But here's an extract from an email I recieved this week from a friend of mine from New Jersey.  Talking about Hurricane Sandy, the aftermath of Sandy, and peripherally Newtown..

With Sandy, I must state that we were one of the SUPER lucky ones.

All around us, even on the same street, people were hammered.  Tree damage, water damage, loss of power of weeks.....total loss of houses, etc, etc.

My wife and I sat around cooking, watching TV, looking at the Internet, and just taking it all in.

I have two generators and lent one out to my brother, and one to my wife's relatives.

The BIG issue was that all around us the local gas stations were without power and could not pump fuel from their tanks.  Notice I said local.  Drive and hour or so in any direction but East, and buy as much as you need.

People were sitting in line for up to six hours and more.  Starting fist fights, pulling knives and guns!!!

I drove two hours south to ride all day, brought four 5 gallon fuel cans and never waited in line once.

I told my wife we need to buy a gun (please note with the mass killings just North of me, in a town I know very well as my sister had lived there for years raising her children, I am not being cute).

People are crazy!

[Rosco]

Lozza , dont assume anything, did you not read what he said , the Police need more help with the laws on Alchol and Drink Driving.

And OBAMA supreme comander for another 4 urking years can step up or not step up to the plate on this issue, and dont get me started on US politics.

I cant tell you first hand my mate after 35 years he has seen more than you and all in the results of to much and behind the wheel.

The Police always need help to Serve and Protect their Communities, their Drink Drive  laws in the US, are no where near as tough as ours.

As for the republicans getting the majority of millions to influenece their decision your dreaming, Politics on both sides are made up of behind close doors and long lunches and best buddies palm greasing , since the Romans.

[Swiss]

Don't want to get into the Gun Control Argument, but I don't see the problem with Gun Control in the USA.  I do see a problem with mentally ill people, and IF I wanted to do some so called Mass Destruction which is what all of the Liberal Media is calling this small town shooting, it would be easier to do with some home made explosive devices, remote cell phone detonators and or simple Box Cutters and Hostages like what happened with the New York Twin Towers! 

You can't even begin to compare numbers of people killed with other countries until you resolve the differences in population and population density.  And then you need to compare with other methods of death and murder both on purpose and accidental.  We have more people accidentally killed cleaning guns in the USA than they do in both of your countries Down Under from purposeful shootings!  The entire country of Australia has around 21 million people.  Los Angeles County (LA and suburbs) has almost 1/2 that in one relatively small area at around 10 million people. 

Swiss

Sorry, grew up with the free choice and use of guns, served and trained in how to use them by the Military and I don't go around the neighborhood shooting people even if they sometimes piss me off!  Isn't it the Swiss that REQUIRE ALL of their citizens to keep a weapon in their house at all times?  And Military service?  I don't hear about all of their gun problems! 

[vmx42]

I don't hear about all of their gun problems! 

Because they have a balance of regulation and inforcement that goes along with gun ownership. It is not a right, it is an active and ongoing responsibility.

Rationalise it however you want, but the facts speak for themselves - 38000 deaths each year. One day America and its individual citizens will acknowledge the problem and be prepared to make some sacrifices* be part of the solution. Until then innocent lives will continue to be lost.

The world wishes you good luck...










*i.e. no you don't need to get a gun as a gift for taking out a bank loan. And no the average citizen doesn't need a semi-automatic assault rifle [what next bazookers?]. excetera, excetera, excetera...

[motomaniac]

I don't hear about all of their gun problems! 

Because they have a balance of regulation and inforcement that goes along with gun ownership. It is not a right, it is an active and ongoing responsibility.

Rationalise it however you want, but the facts speak for themselves - 38000 deaths each year. One day America and its individual citizens will acknowledge the problem and be prepared to make some sacrifices* be part of the solution. Until then innocent lives will continue to be lost.

The world wishes you good luck...

a balance of regulation and enforcement that goes with gun ownership - too easy !
The world wishes  good luck to anyone taking guns off Americans
especially the current admin in the wake of what they are doing.
You forget why Jefferson and the founding fathers included the second ammendment ,and the first for that matter in the constitution in the first place.

[vmx42]

a balance of regulation and enforcement that goes with gun ownership - too easy !
The world wishes  good luck to anyone taking guns off Americans
especially the current admin in the wake of what they are doing.
You forget why Jefferson and the founding fathers included the second ammendment ,and the first for that matter in the constitution in the first place.

Well I guess you are screwed then...