Calling all MOMs anoracks !

[Montynut]

It all comes down to how you set your bark busters up.
I see a lot of guys have them pointing upwards in order to get around there levers but this is when they are at there most dangerous.
You really need them pointing downwards slightly so if you go over the bars your hands go over the top of them.
Typically it’s easier to ban something rather than work out how to avoid the problem.

Agree fully with your bb mounting reasoning but still do not agree that they should be fitted to dirt track or MX bikes.

They are very good in an enduro situation where they offer protection to hands as well as levers against trees and such. On a dirt track or MX track I can only see that they present a danger to the rider of the bike plus other riders. I cerntainly do not think the increased risk of someone being injured is offset by protecting a lever from being snapped in a fall on a closed circuit 100m from your pits.

I don't think Mr Goddard who first developed them ever thought of dirt track or MX.

[TM BILL]

And three days..... What could they possibly talk about for three days?

Freaky have you read that moms  you could waste a lifetime never mind 3 days picking holes in all the ambiguities and contridictions 

IMHO its a typical case of where a book is printed and then over many years added to , modified , and corrected, but for every other addition, modification and correction there is a knock on effect to another obscure rule that nobodys considered until you are unlucky enough to get stuck with an anorack scrutineer or sombody who really wants a trophy by protesting 


Probably spent a day and a half discussing the optional RM B alloy arm and still not reaching a concensus 

[Freakshow]

TMBill im a level 4, i have read the book more than once.  IIRC in the front of the book it says this is a just a guide, its is to be used to focus what is being asked and assist in making consistant descions, it also says its NOT the be all and end all and that common sence is the overriding factor......... 

like i said only some of the rules are definitive lines in the sand ( the obvious ones) the rest are used to assist in making judgment calls with the overridding common sence previous, hitting spokes with a spanner is outrageous.   i think its the first or second page in ?> anyway that page is THE most important part of the book and should be the main focus of any course be it 3 days or a lifetime.
keep the faith

[TM BILL]

TMBill im a level 4, i have read the book more than once.  IIRC in the front of the book it says this is a just a guide, its is to be used to focus what is being asked and assist in making consistant descions, it also says its NOT the be all and end all and that common sence is the overriding factor......... 


There in lies the heart of the problem  how does the poor bastard who has driven 3 days to an event feel when he is turned away at a national event because YOUR common sense differs from his LOCAL grade 4 steward ? scrutineer who lets him run his bike at events 

like i said only some of the rules are definitive lines in the sand ( the obvious ones)

So is every grade 4 steward / scrutineer throughout the country on the same page as to witch are the OBVIOUS ones  and how does the poor bastard who pays for a licence to know witch ones are the obvious ones and witch ones are there to fill in the spaces between the obvious ones

the rest are used to assist in making judgment calls with the overridding common sence previous, hitting spokes with a spanner is outrageous.   i think its the first or second page in ?> anyway that page is THE most important part of the book and should be the main focus of any course be it 3 days or a lifetime.
keep the faith

What does IIRC mean ?

Like i said its fuct  due to the human element  could only be approved by a bloke who wrote his own employment contract 

[evo550]

We don't let bb on the track other than enduro meets, too many risks in arm getting caught and really there for trees not for much else.  The rule of thumbs is if it looks unsafe it is, the grips is a crock of shit and I'd  fight it if I presented a bike. The bar end plugged though is a must. Five cent piece fix it who secs.
Don't get draw into the whole micro management thing. The bikes first and foremost should be visually safe and entered in the right class. Your role should be to check they havent forgotten to put somthign back or tighten something on, usually after working on them, your another set of eyes.   Taking screwdriver to the spokes and all that other over the top stuff is crap and only done by scrutinisers that don't know better.  It's like valve caps should be fitted but would you send one home or would you tell them to grab one off there car ?  its not life threatening.  You also need to be very sure of your legal obligation, your only checking safely from a track point of view to others in the first instance ? And if you see something that could creat injury you need to explain it. All the rest is generally up the the anality of the scrutiner but don't get caught up in that puffery.   Kill switches are not in the rules but you Would probally explain the effect of a chainsaw and ask for one to be fitted please... The biggest grief you Need to work out is your own interpretation of a chain guard and also sprocket guard, I still have guys on modern with open case savers fitted that think its ok, that one you get every other week....  Again I'd forget half of what the guy is telling you and focus on what rules are important to safety and what focus the bikes particularly in there discipline to be sure they are entered in the correct class. If its not right point it out to the race sec or Coc, your also there to catch the dumb forks who can't enter a bike in the right class.  And if your doing vintage check they have a round slide .

There's alot in this one and will get back to it, but I'm not quite sure where it says "bike should be visually safe and your role is to check they haven't forgotten to put something back on or tighten something up"...I disagree, the scrutineers role is to check it complies with the rule book be that safety rules or not (numbers in areil bold MT font) 
As for the front sprocket on a modern bike that's open, it should be alright. Just some vintage bike would have a problem.

[evo550]

TMBill im a level 4, i have read the book more than once.  IIRC in the front of the book it says this is a just a guide, its is to be used to focus what is being asked and assist in making consistant descions, it also says its NOT the be all and end all and that common sence is the overriding factor......... 


There in lies the heart of the problem  how does the poor bastard who has driven 3 days to an event feel when he is turned away at a national event because YOUR common sense differs from his LOCAL grade 4 steward ? scrutineer who lets him run his bike at events 

like i said only some of the rules are definitive lines in the sand ( the obvious ones)

So is every grade 4 steward / scrutineer throughout the country on the same page as to witch are the OBVIOUS ones  and how does the poor bastard who pays for a licence to know witch ones are the obvious ones and witch ones are there to fill in the spaces between the obvious ones

the rest are used to assist in making judgment calls with the overridding common sence previous, hitting spokes with a spanner is outrageous.   i think its the first or second page in ?> anyway that page is THE most important part of the book and should be the main focus of any course be it 3 days or a lifetime.
keep the faith

What does IIRC mean ?

Like i said its fuct  due to the human element  could only be approved by a bloke who wrote his own employment contract 

Spot on Bill, rule books are there to take the use of "common sense" away and provide clear and consistant direction that's the same where ever it's used. Not each and every official to make up their own rules as they go along.

[GD66]

It's all over for common sense nowadays, lawyers have made sure that it no longer exists.
 Unfortunately although the rule book can appear a little murky, in the end the main problem is part-time officials who give inadequate focus to their task, ad-libbing, bullshitting and improvising their own interpretation without fully knowing or reading the relevant chapters. As we're continually told, you don't have to know the entire rulebook, as long as you know where to find the rules covering your application.
Another issue is people deciding they'll apply some rules they happen to like, and ignoring other rules they may not agree with in principle...this can only ever lead to problems...

"Nah, we don't care whether you wear a crash helmet or not, just so long as your sump plug's wired up..."

[Tim754]

As a former level 4 Steward
 (I refused to sign up and pay for this bloody "working with children permit bullshit "  Shit after X amount of years helping kids try to have their motorcycle fun and being my wife's assistant with her Child Care Business,, being informed I was possibly the lowest form of degenerate scum bucket filth because I did not agree to this big brother do gooder crap piece of paper. I let my license lapse ,their loss.. >:
 The Manual of Motorcycle sport Australia is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, BUT you have to have something of a written basis to apply your common sense to and from.  Lets face it, "pay your money, then make some possible rules up for the day as you have a quick look around whilst having a piss into the wind" attitude is not be the ideal way to effectively and safely run any event  Title or basic club run.

[Freakshow]

..I disagree, the scrutineers role is to check it complies with the rule book be that safety rules or not (numbers in areil bold MT font) 
As for the front sprocket on a modern bike that's open, it should be alright. Just some vintage bike would have a problem.

Mate no offence but if that's what you think after three days you need to be demoted back to level 1. Sprocket cover are mandatory on all bikes if there is a space of 30 mm form the swing arm pivot be it modern classic or a push bike..... From that response you bag me out for lines in the sand and then you say your letting a "modern break the rules cause it should be  alright "  is that a technical term ? My point being there are some rules we all inforce, other like font that you seem to be hot on checking, is literally irrelevant if it can be seen by a lap scorer and a normal style font it would be ok, Reality is most events these days use transponders so that negates most of your worries. Like I said you check the things that hurt people, then  if you wanna play tap spokes knoc yourself out, its is up to you.

TMbill don't confuse scrutineering with eligibility there two differant tests.  You won't get turned away from a national event based on a safety issue unless your issue is so forking obvious you should have fixed it no matter how stupid the rider is, such as a cracked frame, snapped shock, no muffler or a primary cover. Safety check the bleeding obvious.  Eligibility scut intending is another matter, and basically you should be turned away if you try and enter a pre 78 bike in pre 70 or something as equally stupid.

[Tim754]

"Like I said you check the things that hurt people, the rest is up to you."

Yep very well said Freaky    Cheers.




Still wondering what the aliens have done with the other Freaky

[Freakshow]

More important things going on these days, up to armpits in half finished projects rather than getting into pointless discussions anymore perhaps

[Iain Cameron]

MOMs 1995 , 176 pages     MOMs 2011 , 278 pages  only 16 years  mmm a lot more rules ?   Iain

[Freakshow]

Nah that's suzuki and Yamaha adds, drug testing and teams rap ups and Os stuff

[Brian Watson]

Yes, maybe you should have actually had a look at the two books side by side Ian.... a lot of history about our sport is also included in the new MOMS also... that said...there is also far too much advertising for my liking... still gotta pay for it somehow..

[worms]

is common sense defined in the MOM's,

if you have a rear sprocket with only 3 bolts out 6 holding it on, is it safe to race, not is it raceable, but is it safe for rider and other competitors?

are pivot footpegs allowable? because they only have to be folding, or do we have to have a rule for everything.

hah, lets have a common sense rule and all get some balls, if your not complying with how the mom's are written, to best of your abillity, then you might have to change something, but you are the cause for the MOM's getting out of hand, its called the "why not factor".

cheers and merry Christmas
worms