Vintage Slider Ban

[firko]

For an interesting development with Penrith club and Nepean, please go to the Yamaha section and the "DT 360A V MX 360A" thread. It seems that the Penrith club are going to overwrite the long traditions of our sport and ban sliders from racing against MX bikes. Sometimes I just don't get it.

[jimg1au]

just to let everyone know aust junior longtrack titles were run in blaney on the weekend and sliders and mx bikes rode in the same races.i guy on a yz2504t slider won the 250cc aussie championship.but cant ride them together on club days at nepean.

[jimg1au]

comments from a rider who rode in the 60 70 80 90
 
G’day folks

Just my two bobs worth on the classic slider issue.

Ask any one who rode Short Circuit in the late 60’s and the 70’s  and  80’sand you will find that Chookies and Sliders rode together in ALL classes of competition.

Before that , riders MODIFIED B31s, B33s ,  Velos ,  Ajs and Ariels etc to make them more suitable for Short circuit racing ie  cut down fuel tanks , seats and mudguards, fitted lighter  forks and wheels and modified the frames

Some riders went to the lengths of making their own frames ,  ever heard of a Philmac Special ??, If you haven’t, you probably weren’t there !!

My first Short Circuit bike in 1964 or so was a MODIFIED 350 Mac Velo , fitted with a tubular fuel tank, clamped to the top frame tube , lighter forks and 21 inch front wheel .

I then raced highly modified Ariels with most of the engine bits MADE by Sid Willis, who was an absolute magician with metal and a top bloke.

Once again if you don’t know who Sid Willis and Art Senior were ,  again, you weren’t there.

In 1969 I built my first full slider type machine using a 1940 Art Senior 350 Ariel engine and a highly modified 1955 Ariel swinging arm frame , Bantam forks and front wheel,a homemade seat and a fuel tank from a Rotrax Speedway bike.

My brother now owns this bike and is restoring it, with the hope of being able to run this historic machine,

 However, people with their own agendas are stopping him riding it in its correct class , Shame on you,  Penrith MCC and your cohorts .

Short circuit in those days was populated by clever and resourceful people , as was all of motorcycle racing in those days and if someone came up with a better motor , frame or bike , you just rode harder and beat him, you didn’t whinge and complain and try to rule him or it out of the sport.

It seems the same restrictive attitude from those in power that stopped me from riding for my country of birth, yeah, I’m a Pommy, in the 1970 /’71 English v Aussie Short Circuit Test at Nepean, still exists,  I have never forgiven those in power and never will !!!!

 # 454 Alan Garvey, the Fossil

[firko]

As a former president of Penrith club and the person who was instrumental in getting them involved in vintage racing in the first place, I'm extremely disapointed in the decision to seperate sliders and motocross bikes at Penrith club meetings. I'm curious to know what prompted this monumentally stupid decision? What was the reason behind changing decades of tradition?

Since slider style bikes first appeared on the scene in the early sixties they have run together with standard framed machines with little or no serious problems. This has been the status quo for vintage meetings since Penrith club pioneered the division in 1989. With the exception of the 2 valve and Pre 65 classes*, sliders and MX bikes have raced together since that first meeting. In that time I haven't seen one situation serious enough for us to even consider seperating the bikes. Sure, the bikes do require different riding techniques and do take different lines but that is one of the inherent features of dirt track.

If Penrith club is counting on running the sliders in seperate capacity classes I'm certain they won't get enough sliders to fill any 125 or 250 classes. If they plan on running all sliders in together I feel sorry for those competitors with 125 and 250 engined bikes that will now be forced to race against 500 class bikes.

This is an illadvised decision that will have a detrimental effect for riders who wish to ride their sliders at Penrith club days. Thankfully it isn't a national decision and other clubs/tracks will still hopefully run the sliders together with chook chasers (as standard framed bikes are called by old timers in the sport).

Because Penrith vintage dirt track meetings are losing the innovative cutting edge they once enjoyed it won't affect the sport to a major degree. However, in this time when we should be celebrating the traditions of dirt track of which the slider is a major contributor, it seems that Penrith has decided that they are bigger than those proud traditions.

* The slider only 2 valve class is not actually a pre 75 vintage class. It was developed to recreate those great slider battles of the seventies and eighties and to provide an exciting spectacle. It bought back many of the sports greats like Kevin Mc Donald, Kevin Fraser, Gary O'Brien, Phil Herne and many more. At it's peak, the 2 valve class competition was the hardest fought in the whole vintage dirt movement.

**The pre 65 class was made a pure MX style bike only class after Alan Jones attempted to enter a Hagon JAP at the 1999 Australian Championships at Nepean. Christine Tickner referred the entry to Rob Madden at MANSW who decided, in his esteemed knowledge and wisdom, that sliders were not eligible for the class and it has remained so ever since.
Ironically Alan Jones, the bloke they were trying to keep out of the class, is now the current pre 65 Aussie champion on Black Betty, his ESO Metisse 'chook chaser'.

[suzuki27]

Hi Fossil,good to hear your view and memories.Sure,the bikes are ridden differently,(Chookie V Slider), but in all the years i have been riding dirt track it hasn't been an issue.There were and will always be grumblings from some that they should not be on the track together-but I can honestly say I have not seen a prang caused by the different cornering technigues applied by the different bikes-plenty of falls but "Racing Incidents" covers most of them.I remember when K.Horton on a big YZ first beat C.Watson on his Slider ,which surprised more than a few people-guys like Whitehouse,Warner,Gall etc Vs the Slider guys were great spectacles and still are-Is it an insurance issue or the view of a small but powerful group behind it.I just hope they at least put it to a vote-I will get off my "Soap Box" now.It would be good if those involved could post the reasons why it is being considered

[firko]

I think the 'vote' has already happened if you can go by the following email from Chris Tickner of Penrith club........
Hi ...., this is to confirm that at the meeting of City of Penrith last week it was decided that sliders can only race in slider races.  This information will be sent out in the Club newsletter. Regards Chris
  That pretty much says it all.

If it's an insurance issue, we have good reason for concern.

[suzuki27]

So it doesn't need to be ratified/signed off on by MNSW(MA)-or this sort of decision can be done on a Club level? What about inter-club meetings? One Club may be OK with combining Chookies and sliders but Penrith not! So,it sounds like MNSW would have to be involved.I heard a rumour the best part of 12 months ago,that a well known ex-dirt track rider and now Steward/Clerk had floated the idea-maybe just a rumour,but it would be fair to all if the WHOLE process was TRANSPARENT,that led to this.

[mike1948]

Totally crazy idea.  MX frames have been mixing with sliders since I first raced in '65, the different styles & therefore variety of racing lines add to the racing.  Even the old stock bike class in speedway didn't split them up, probably because in those days, Hagon style frames were really 2-3 years down the track, and the popular choice was just made up from old BSA/Velo/Ariel/JAP/Eso metal heavily modified (no brakes, Scary!).  Even in the 70s, segregation of the types was not even considered.
I bet some misguided clot will try to justify this decision as a safety issue, to protect us from ourselves.     

[Wombat]

What is it with 'Boards' making changes that seriously effect the sport as a whole?!
What's with the Dictator attitude?

I understand 'Boards' are voted in by the Members, but their role remains one of facilitating the agenda and writing letters and paying the bills and organising etc. It's not a mandate to push the bias of a few.

WTF is happening where decisions are being made without the consent of the Members, without it going to a vote from the membership?
"It would be fair if the whole process was transparent" says Suzuki27; you're absolutely right - but don't hold your breath waiting for a response, fair or otherwise!  

[Yamaboy]

Shit, has the Penrith club gone completely mad? What's prompted this bout of madness? I can smell inteference by people who are acting purely on self interest and not considering the sports traditions. I don't own a slider but did race a Hagon Bultaco in the old days. If I owned that bike today I'd be pretty pissed off if they told me I had to race against Jawa and Jap powered 500s. Like previous posters have said, the history of "Short Circuit" has had sliders racing against chookys since day one with very few problems. Why change it now?

This is another example of a club that has lost its way. Back in the early vintage days Penrith dirt track meetings were the standard setters and the racing and atmosphere were brilliant. Today a Penrith meeting is a drab old affair officiated by people who would rather be baby sitting their grandchildren or putting in a new batch of begonias. The enthusiasm and positive vibe of the old days has long gone, replaced by a boring meeting run by boring people. Vintage dirt track deserves better service than what Penrith is offering up these days.

[firko]

As much as I agree with the sentiments that Penrith club is now going through the motions and not doing anything spectacular with their race meetings any more, I have to admit that it is a thankless job and that Christine and the rest have been trying to find enthusiastic people to take over for a long time now. Typically everyone who have put their 2 bobs worth in like B Rad and others very quickly drop off the perch when they realise the amount of work and dedication needed. It's then left to Christine and her crew to pick up the pieces and carry on again. I found the same situation when I was running things back in the early days. I was so glad when Chris, Len and the others took over. Now years later theyre suffering from burnout and the "boring" meetings and the dumb decision on this slider situation are good examples of how they aren't thinking things properly through any more. If someone else would have taken the job when they were calling for new blood the stupid decision quite possibly wouldn't have been made and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[elsie 125]

 Like Firko says, no new blood coming forward and running the clubs, helping out at working bees etc, we have the same thing in canberra 3 or 4 people to do any work needed to get anything done, its all to easy to turn up and ride, let the rest, be someone elses problem, 
 sooner or later at this stage clubs will fold next as no one wants to have ago and start helping out a bit in there clubs,
 Moruya club will have that exact problem come june, Leanne has been hunting for new blood to run the future short track meetings for the past 4 months to no avail, as she is finishing as race sec, organiser end of may.
 So who will run the Jack Hogg next year?? will there be a Jack Hogg next year??
 maybe if Leanne comes back to do it??

[jimg1au]

MARK AND PAT
what difference dose it make who is in charge or running the meeting. when the thread is about my mx 360 motor in a slider frame or the original frame.same rider  same entry fee  same pre75 eligabilty. pat your meeting had a pre75 hagon 250 riding with mx framed bikes.on 2oth april as per your clubs web page.
i know only to well the amount of work that goes into a meeting as both my father and brother used to run dirt track events.
cheers
jim

[xstracker]

Hi my tag is xstracker but most know me as herb, at the recent City of Penrith club day at Nepean we had 4 sliders turn up and i did not have a single query on the decision to run sliders by themselves. This decision was made at a club meeting by the members present after recieving comments from other competitors that were concerned by sliders in the same races as mx/chookies. Remember that not everyone used to race against sliders and some only came into the sport recently.

We at City of Penrith MCC love sliders and there is no better sight than speedway corner viewed from the tyrewall at the startline with 3 or 4 sliders at full noise coming thru there.

We have not banned sliders from racing as some have suggested but we have addressed the concerns of our members.

whilst we are only a small club we still try to provide for pre 75 classic and modern dirt track machines and along with St George MCC will continue to have club days at Nepean and we will again run a Two Day charity meeting in august for Pre 75 machines , hope to see you there. Cheers Herb

[jimg1au]

HI
you missed the whole point.pre 75 sliders should be able to run with pre75 mx bikes.the way it is now all sliders are together.ie my 1969 home made 350 ariel(this bike was on the front cover on the spokesman one month in 1971) or my 1974 antig 360 yamaha or my 1976 tt500 hagon,can line up against a 2008 laydown jawa grasstrack bike or any other modern varient of sliders.being a rider from pre75 all bikes ran in their cc class 125 250 350 500.
but rules are rules so I will only bring 1 at a time and ride my other pre 75 chookies
see you on the 29th june