2 stroke V's 4 Stroke- Lets thump it out??

[Nathan S]

Foreign language words get used when there's no English equivilant, or they do a better job than the English version (and let's face it, despite the nice leather and timber trim, English words are prone to black-outs, oil leaks and electrical fires).
They also get used to increase the wank factor.

Whether using a foreign word is better or a wank, is up to the speaker/writer.

The alternative is a 1984-esque scenario where there is only one allowable word for any particular thing.

[firko]

I agree Nathan-each to his own but what bothers me is why the 2T/4T evolved at all.

I have a theory though. I'd be pretty surprised if most of us really thought that Sushi tasted good. But because media and style fashionistas* tell us it's so wonderful, we believe that it must really be worth eating and not wanting to be seen as uncool, eat the shit even though we secretly detest it. The 2T/4T thing probably evolved the same way. Some new age tuning wizard probably started using the term in some obscure article on polymer gasket infusion in 'Cam Profile Monthly' and not wanting to be seen to be out of touch with the latest in techno jargon we conciously start using the term in a bid to be seen as 'cutting edge'. Before long the term has achieved general usage with Gen X techno whores. 

*Note my cool use of the Italian noun just to show that I can be just as cool/stupid/guilty.

[Stan S]

I agree Nathan-each to his own but what bothers me is why the 2T/4T evolved at all.

I have a theory though. I'd be pretty surprised if most of us really thought that Sushi tasted good. But because media and style fashionistas* tell us it's so wonderful, we believe that it must really be worth eating and go ahead and eat the shit even though we secretly hate it and don't want to be seen to be uncool. The 2T/4T thing probably evolved the same way. Some new age tuning wizard probably started using the term in some obscure article on polymer gasket infusion in 'Cam Profile Monthly' and not wanting to be seen to be out of touch with the latest in techno jargon we conciously start using the term in a bid to be seen ass 'cutting edge'. Before long the term has become general usage. 

*Note my cool use of the Italian noun just to show that I can be just as cool/stupid/guilty.

Hey Mark, I can't imagine too many references to 2T in " Cam Profile Monthly"

Stan

[ChrisACT]

I have a theory though. I'd be pretty surprised if most of us really thought that Sushi tasted good. But because media and style fashionistas* tell us it's so wonderful, we believe that it must really be worth eating and not wanting to be seen as uncool, eat the shit even though we secretly detest it.

I like good Sushi.  Bad Sushi is evil.  There is an awful lot of bad Sushi around these days.

[Marc.com]

I like good Sushi.  Bad Sushi is evil.  There is an awful lot of bad Sushi around these days.

I can't believe what foreigners pay for Sushi, I was in Zurich and they were getting 4CHF for bad Sushi rolled by a Korean.

The 4stroke 2 stroke debate is a feature of every bike magazine these days. Doesn't help that the Yamaha brand series for up and coming stars in the US was won by a YZ125 which wiped the floor with the 250s.

I think the open 4 strokes rock (try the 2010 RMZ450) just smooth horror big power, but my RM500 doesn't feel any less powerful, just the 450 has drive any time you pull the trigger. I want to get them both out together some time and plonk a good rider on both, be interesting as hell.

[lukeb1961]

2009 RMZ450   5-speed  disks, Fuel Injected,  46.5HP @7500  torque 30.8 @7000   113kg (full)  12.2" rear travel, seat height 37.5"
1983 RM500D   4-speed  drums, reed-valve,    46.0HP @7500  torque 34.4 @6000   113kg (full)  13.1" rear travel, seat height 37.2"


RM500D - Dirt Rider October 1983
http://cid-407d7ef0965d3991.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Racing%20Model/Magazines

RMZ450
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/240/1724/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Suzuki-RM-Z450-Comparison.aspx


now that all has to be taken as a heck of a bike, but I am left wondering what an RM500cc two-stroke
would be developing if they had continued to work on them over the past 26 years.

[Stan S]

Quite a few years ago our club had Phil Irving as a guest speaker at a dinner and when he was taking questions I asked him would 4 strokes take over from 2 strokes and he replied only if we let them as his belief was that we have not scratched the surface of 2 stroke technology but enviromental laws may stop them reaching their potential.

[VMX247]

ozone layer/emissions trading hasn't got us quiet yet..
YZ and 04/06 model RM 2T are still available to purchase and order.
cheers

[floberts]

I have cut and pasted the post below from cr500riders.com

I got a copy of Transworld MX at the store today.  They rode Service Honda's KX500AF.  Short article, not as good as the write ups MXA does...but you get the idea.  It's to the point.

Bottom line is the test rider who had only ridden a 500cc two stroke ONCE before was still faster on the 500 than his 450 

Here are his times;
Rider:  Brendan Lutes
lap     450F        500AF
 1    2:24.33     2:21.65
 2    2:23.24     2:22.71
 3    2:24.79     2:20.99
 4    2:23.99     2:20.36

Time and time again lap times PROVE 500AFs are often faster around a track than 450s.  They aren't your girlfriend's bike.  You need to; 1 Learn how to ride.  And; 2 Stop curling beer cans and start pumping dumb bells if you want to be "competitive" on a 500cc two stroke.  The weight advantage is there, the subsequent handling advantages are there, the power advantage is there and the power delivery isn't a problem if you obey rules 1 and 2.

[Marc.com]

2009 RMZ450   5-speed  disks, Fuel Injected,  46.5HP @7500  torque 30.8 @7000   113kg (full)  12.2" rear travel, seat height 37.5"
1983 RM500D   4-speed  drums, reed-valve,    46.0HP @7500  torque 34.4 @6000   113kg (full)  13.1" rear travel, seat height 37.2"

Cool interesting to see the stats on top of each other like that. I might frame those and hang them on the wall. I like that the RM500 makes more torque at lower RPM.

Well moves are afoot at the moment to get rid of the 450s, the AMA are considering to reduce the open class to 350cc. KTM must have good inside information as they already have built a 350 as they did a 2strokes 150cc. As usual the factories are looking for a way of slowing down guys who don't have their budget.

[vmx42]

Marc,
No need to slow down the 450s by decreasing their capacity. It will only add to the cost of racing [and the short term profits for the factories]. Simply make the existing bikes comply to sensible noise regulations and you will achieve the same thing [and benefit the entire sport].
VMX42

[TM BILL]

Marc,
No need to slow down the 450s by decreasing their capacity. It will only add to the cost of racing [and the short term profits for the factories]. Simply make the existing bikes comply to sensible noise regulations and you will achieve the same thing [and benefit the entire sport].
VMX42

Never a truer word spoken 

[TM BILL]

The thing with these modern 4 stroke shitboxes is that (as with the rest of modern society ) they are dumbing things down 

The standard of riding over the last 10 years from Pro to club rider has deterioated a lot. By the time the current generation of young juniors turn senior i believe it will be twice as bad 

Thankfully the World Junior champs have dropped the 250F class for this year and competitors will have to ride 125s 

Most kids these days get off an 85cc bike onto a 250F and within 6 months all those skills they learnt on there 2 strokes are gone and they become couch spuds on noisey lawnmowers 

Thank christ those ridiculous 150 4 strokes never took off 

The current generation of superstars Reed ,Stewart,Villipoto,Townley, cairolli , Machio all learnt there skills on 2 strokes and i believe unless we ditch the 4 stroke rubbish this generation will be the last of the real racers 

[Marc.com]

"2T OR 4T" What a load. I am an Australian! and when it comes to stroking,

Yep certainly when it comes to stroking you Aussies are in a class of your own 

[vmx42]

"2T OR 4T" What a load. I am an Australian! and when it comes to stroking,

Yep certainly when it comes to stroking you Aussies are in a class of your own 

It's only because we don't have easy access to sheep!!!