EVO legal flatslide

[bigk]

Why not? It's no more bother than fitting emulators to your forks or a DG pipe, or a porcupine head, or a boost bottle etc. Performance gains are probably little if any (not that I can use more performance anyway). Just something different, and to be honest the dimensions of the TM suit me better than the VM for this particular application.
K

[motomaniac]

because they didnt come on an EVO bike. I agree about the emulators ,they were not available until the post 85 cartridge fork era ( hence the name "emulators" as they are supposed to emulate a cartridge system) so should'nt be allowed either.Boost bottles and porky heads were made for EVO bikes ,they are legal.What does the 2012 MOM's say?

[micks]

evolution rules are crap starts with something called OEM, then goes into modifications converting later equipment will not allowed. then you can fit a period flatslide carburetter.
the time line of the flatslides from mark boddy would have come from historic road race.(log books)
ok did the penton come out with a flatslide?

[motomaniac]

evolution rules are crap starts with something called OEM, then goes into modifications converting later equipment will not allowed. then you can fit a period flatslide carburetter.
the time line of the flatslides from mark boddy would have come from historic road race.(log books)
ok did the penton come out with a flatslide?

EVO seem pretty straight forward to me. of course no later equipment or it wouldn't be EVO. You can fit a period correct flatslide .Simple! Yes some model KTM's had a lectron in th e US and you could buy both lectron and Ei magnum's .They are from the Era ,not a later Era .Simple as.

[bigk]

Maybe I'm getting crankier in my old age, but here's the situation. I have a standard worn Mikuni VM roundslide which needs replacing. I want to replace it with a TM flatslide, just because. The rules state "any period flatslide", and a TM flatslide is clearly a period item as they were available to buy and a production item on some bikes from at least as early as 1982. My bike is an '82 Husqvarna, twin shock, air cooled drum brake bike, EVO by every sense. Some euro manufacturers continued with the EVO legal configuration up to 1984 (Husqvarna CR500 amongst others), so how can it not be an EVO legal carb? You can't use the old adage that no EVO bikes were fitted with them as standard, I don't know of any that were fitted with Lectons or EI's as standard equipment (some earlier KTM's maybe with a Lectron), and both are EVO legal carbs. There are plenty of people running around down here with Keihin PWK crescent slide carbs on their EVO & pre'85 bikes, but I would say that that is definately not legal and I don't want to do that. So what's the answer and who do we ask?
K 

[Nathan S]

Small old problem as always, K: Evo is a technology class, not an age class.

They're still making Evo-legal bikes in 2012, so the Evo "period" is anything up to the day the last Evo-legal bike rolls out of the showroom floor.

So you shouldn't bother farting around with a shitty old TM - go straight for a Air-Striker, power-jet, TPS equipped PWK or PWM...

[kaw440]

2012 rules 18.5.6.5 carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
This means in my interpratation if it was avalible at the time then it can be used reguardless of what it was made for as TM mikunis were sold as a aftermarket carby then you can use it if it falls within the years of evo bikes you cannot say you are not aloud to use it if you could buy it at that time.
thats like saying that dunlop geomax tyres cannot be used you must run k190 who sells them now

[motomaniac]

2012 rules 18.5.6.5 carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
This means in my interpratation if it was avalible at the time then it can be used reguardless of what it was made for as TM mikunis were sold as a aftermarket carby then you can use it if it falls within the years of evo bikes you cannot say you are not aloud to use it if you could buy it at that time.
thats like saying that dunlop geomax tyres cannot be used you must run k190 who sells them now

so with that reasoning because Husqvarna made EVO spec bikes upto 84 I can fit a set of fully adjustable cartridge kitted 43mm forks by mugen or whitepower that were available before 84 to my 1980 EVO Honda or I can go with a set of UDX 60 Simmons because they are also available as aftermarket item during the period that Husqvarna made EVO spec bikes.Decisions decisions

[motomaniac]

2012 rules 18.5.6.5 carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
This means in my interpratation if it was avalible at the time then it can be used reguardless of what it was made for as TM mikunis were sold as a aftermarket carby then you can use it if it falls within the years of evo bikes you cannot say you are not aloud to use it if you could buy it at that time.
thats like saying that dunlop geomax tyres cannot be used you must run k190 who sells them now

except mikuni still sells round slide carbs

[bigk]

Without getting into the what if's, what about's etc (there are millions), the simple question is why wouldn't a Mikuni TM flatslide carburetor be classed as period correct? I agree that TMX & PWK's etc are not period correct (they are crescent slide anyway, not flat side), but no-one has really given a valid reason as to why they are not PC. Shocks are open slather as they are classed as "consumables" and the new popular crop are quite different to the "period correct" shocks. So aren't carbies "consumable"? If I turned up at the nationals with a TM on my EVO bike and was told to ride it in pre'85, I'd probably want some good solid reasons.
K

[Nathan S]

The argument against a TM in Evo is that they were not fitted to any Evo-legal bikes.

You'll never get an answer that everyone can agree on. Its the same basic problem as the old "CR480 motor into a CR250RA" debate.

[motomaniac]

early 80's EVO  bikes like Husky's  are classed as EVO because they are using components that were around,with the same tech as bikes that were around when all bikes were EVO .As soon as you put a component that came along later on its no longer an EVO bike is it? It's a pre 85 or pre 90 bike.

[bigk]

Neither were twin clicker fully adjustable rebound & compression shocks, which is the norm these days and I'm one who uses them. Fat bars are a monstrosity on VMX bikes and are surely not "period correct" but are no problems. Both have clear performance advantages, probably more so than the carb issue. There seems to be little "common sense" with the rules and heaps of reasons for anyone to protest. I ride Huskies which were EVO legal until 1984, the no later equipment rule cannot be applied when I would be fitting a carb readliy available in 1982 to a 1982 EVO legal bike. If I were fitting it to a 1981 or earlier bike, there MAY be an issue. So if I buy a brand new Lectron built yesterday with the current technology, I'm OK? Perhaps the MOMS should replace the word "ANY" with a list of exclusions & allowed carbs as in the pre '78 lot. It looks like I won't be going to Tassie, cos the bike is 95% getting a TM.
K

[JohnnyO]

Why can't people just build an Evo bike to suit the rules as they are??
Today you want flatslide carby's, tomorrow it'll be CR480 motors, next week you'll want Simons upside down forks, then it'll be 2000 model 50mm conventional forks...
Oh look now we've got a field of UK spec hybrid bitsa's that cost mega to build and leave an original spec Evo bike uncompetitive..
Why not start something like an Evo 2 open class where anything goes?

[bigk]

The rules state in clear english "ANY period flatslide". My bike is 1982, the carbs were available in 1982, maybe earlier. The evo "period" ranges right up to 1984 with certain manufacturers. The way I read it, it is a legal period carburetor. I asked a simple question to clarify and opened a can of worms. Lots of differing opinions, but no clear answer forthcoming. It's not about building a bike outside the rules at all, it's a legitimate inquiry. Next someone will say a 1984 Husqvarna CR500 is a pre '85 bike even though it meets all EVO requirements. Maybe the evo rules should be amended to no linkage, no water cooling, drum brakes, built before 1985.
To answer your questions Brent:
Could I fit a flatslide TM to my 1982 EVO bike in 1982, yes. Could I fit 1984 MUGEN or Simons UXD 60's to my 1982 EVO bike in 1982, no.
BUT could I fit 1984 Mugen or Simons UXD60's or WP40U's to my 1984 EVO bike in 1984, YES. So there's an even bigger can of worms.