EVO legal flatslide

[bigk]

Are Mikuni TM series flat slide carbs (not TMX crescent slide) EVO legal?
Cheers,
K

[motomaniac]

don't think so ,only Lectron and Ei Magnum from memory.

[Gippslander]

From the 27 page long !!!     Topic: Eligilibty scrutineer at the Nationals  (Read 17125 times)

So what carbies can be used?
This is a list of some common carbies and their availability date:
Lectron (non powerjet) 1976
Lectron powerjet 1979
Mikuni powerjet (roundslide) 1979
Mikuni TM 1982
Keihin PJ 1985
Mikuni TMX 1987
Keihin PWK 1988
Mikuni TMS 1992
Mikuni PM 1998
Keihin PWM 1999

Therefore as the flatslide Mikuni was not available in 1977 it cannot be used in Pre-78.

The MoMs should NOT be amended 'to allow flat slides for Pre-78 and later'.
Instead it should be amended to explicitly state that all eligibilty for Pre-78, Evo and Pre-85 classes is stated in the individual section for each of these classes.

Mark Boddy 

AND...

The carb question will be as so.

Pre 78 and older will not be able to use a flat slide

EVO, and Pre 85 will be able to use a flat slide of any type.

211

AND...

Quote from: 211kawasaki on May 17, 2009, 08:36:06 PM
EVO, and Pre 85 will be able to use a flat slide of any type.

That is not what it says. It says:
Quote from: Classic Motocross Commission Meeting Minutes
18.6.04 b) Flat slide carburettors are prohibited on all machines except EVO and Pre 85.
Non Era parts such as modern flat slide carbies will still be ineligible.

There were only three of you at the meeting Dave.
How come you managed to stuff it up so that Lectrons are not eligible for Pre78?
They were arguably eligible for all three recent classes before this amendment.
Now you have changed the rules to make them not eligible.

AND...

Guys

many times before I have said this, the Commission is only taking recomendations it received to the LCBs for agreement or not; you have to understand that the Commission is NOT making the rules, its simply the adminstrative body that collates the requests into a format for the State LCBs to decide.

As for the Lectron issue
NOTE: as the rules stand on this day there are no Lectron carbys allowed no flat slides of any type in fact - period. (there will however; pending the pre approval of the issue from the State LCBs, an allowance for pre 85 and EVO to have these items at this years nationals)

Based on submissions to the Commission it was agreed that there is sufficent evidence to (correctly in my view) allow flat slides of any kind in EVO and Pre 85. There is no dispute that you could buy a non pumper Lectron in 1977, the Commission - again based on the submissions decided not to propose flat slide carbs for pre 78. Its not an issue of Lectrons being available in the period, its about allowing for the correct type available. For example we chose to allow flat slides in EVO, Pre 85 because there are no issues of type (pumper; not pumper; Mikuni ; Lectron etc) There are issues of type in the pre 78 period and the evidence presented while strong suggested that it would be better not to allow these in Pre 78.

The proposals are with you State LCBs, its now the responsibility of the stake holders of the sport - you guys  lobby your committee for the outcome that best suits your view of the sport.

Again - based on the response from the State LCBs "AND" the majority view will be the result.

Tanner #211

[Slakewell]

Why do people want the flat slide? A well sorted type 54 Bing will give more HP than anything else.

[popeye]

I have a 38mm Flat slide on my CR250 EVO and it works fine, never had any trouble with it at all.

[bigk]

So it's a yes for TM38 flatslide, now to decide.
Cheers,
K

[JohnnyO]

Bigk the 2012 rulebook says..
18.5.6.4  Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
That pretty much rules out Mikuni and Keihin flat slide carby's as i don't think any Evo bikes came std with them...
All those quotes above are not from the 2012 rulebook.

[Gippslander]

Perhaps I don't understand this properly, but if you have an 82 or 83 Husky EVO bike the TM Mikuni flat slide is surely "period", because 1982 bike and 1982 carby are the same period, and that 100% complies with rule 18.5.6.4

(Subject of course to the list below being correct)

So what carbies can be used?
This is a list of some common carbies and their availability date:
Lectron (non powerjet) 1976
Lectron powerjet 1979
Mikuni powerjet (roundslide) 1979
Mikuni TM 1982
Keihin PJ 1985
Mikuni TMX 1987
Keihin PWK 1988
Mikuni TMS 1992
Mikuni PM 1998
Keihin PWM 1999

[JohnnyO]

Perhaps I don't understand this properly, but if you have an 82 or 83 Husky EVO bike the TM Mikuni flat slide is surely "period", because 1982 bike and 1982 carby are the same period, and that 100% complies with rule 18.5.6.4

(Subject of course to the list below being correct)

So what carbies can be used?
This is a list of some common carbies and their availability date:
Lectron (non powerjet) 1976
Lectron powerjet 1979
Mikuni powerjet (roundslide) 1979
Mikuni TM 1982
Keihin PJ 1985
Mikuni TMX 1987
Keihin PWK 1988
Mikuni TMS 1992
Mikuni PM 1998
Keihin PWM 1999

Where did you get that list? It's not in the 2012 rulebook

With the '82 carby issue, it had to come standard on an Evo bike and those Husky's came with a round slide.
An '82 Honda had a 480 aircooled engine but you can't use it in Evo because it came on a single shock bike...

[Gippslander]

Thanks Johnny, ok, I may be getting out of my depth here... 

The list of carburettor introduction dates were provided by a person whom I think has in the past been a scrutineer, see the previous thread that I referred to.

BUT...  from the way it looks to me the rules say "period" and the TM Flatslides are the exact same period, so to my reading of the rules they are ok.

Perhaps the point to be made is that the rules do not say "you must race the bikes as they came from the factory".

And it seems to me that if we apply the reasoning "it had to come standard on an Evo bike then you could not put a pair of FOX front forks on an Evo bike.

Have I gone down the wrong rabbit hole 

[bigk]

Surely if I could buy a TM flatslide in 1982 & fit it to my '82 EVO Husky, it stands to reason that I can buy one in 2012 and fit it to my '82 EVO Husky and be legit?
K

[JohnnyO]

Thanks Johnny, ok, I may be getting out of my depth here... 

The list of carburettor introduction dates were provided by a person whom I think has in the past been a scrutineer, see the previous thread that I referred to.

BUT...  from the way it looks to me the rules say "period" and the TM Flatslides are the exact same period, so to my reading of the rules they are ok.

Perhaps the point to be made is that the rules do not say "you must race the bikes as they came from the factory".

And it seems to me that if we apply the reasoning "it had to come standard on an Evo bike then you could not put a pair of FOX front forks on an Evo bike.

Have I gone down the wrong rabbit hole 

OK the flatslide carby thing is maybe a little confusing because no Evo bikes came out with a Mikuni or Keihin flatslide but you could buy one in the later part of the Evo based era..
Aftermarket parts such as Fox Forks are fine because they were available in the era of YZ465, Maico 490, RM400 etc..
Evo is an Era not a specific year class, air cooled, drum brake, non linkage suspension. If you use parts from bikes that fit into that category you won't have a problem.

[JohnnyO]

Surely if I could buy a TM flatslide in 1982 & fit it to my '82 EVO Husky, it stands to reason that I can buy one in 2012 and fit it to my '82 EVO Husky and be legit?
K

Mick i don't know what the ruling is on that because you have a valid point.. i'm just going off what it says in the 2012 rulebook

[maico police]

Why would you bother.....

[JohnnyO]

Why would you bother.....

I agee... I've never used a flatslide on an Evo. A good roundslide works perfectly.