Simons for pre 78?

[Slakewell]

I like to think a common sense approach to this issue would be a joint statement from the club and MA stating that standard bikes with standard forks will not be knocked back.
As this is the first time the spot light has been put on the pre 78 class because of the split this issue has reached boiling point for sure and MA should address the issue ASAP. It would be tragic to see pre 78 class die a death like pre 65 did because of overzealous rule enforcement. We should be enticing people to enter not beat them with the rule book over 1’ of fork travel.

[Bamford#69]

Hi,
Would any of you guys be interested in  become an MA Official for the weekend  to help make sure the meeting runs without any dramas,
 cheers

[maico police]

It's easier to just ride EVO where "anything goes".......

[TM BILL]

For the record i really hope this nats kicks arse   but but statements like michaels are destructive no matter how well intention ed   many people will travel long distances to support this event .So if you are indeed an official at this event then instead of scattergun statements why not try to help the punters to comply buy explaining whats required .

Might not achieve that power fix, but it might just help people understand whats required and increase participation at the event  

What i would like clarified is the 9" rule not to be confused with the fitting of components from later models  

[Marc.com]

Hi,
Would any of you guys be interested in  become an MA Official for the weekend  to help make sure the meeting runs without any dramas,
 cheers

Normally the events would run with a lot less drama if the MA officials stayed at home. I remember organising events in Australia and you would get some idiot turn up who had never seen an MX bike and just start shagging people around over their helmets because thats all they could grasp..... no added value whatsover in my experience except to project the power of the all oppressive MA.

[TM BILL]

Hi,
Would any of you guys be interested in  become an MA Official for the weekend  to help make sure the meeting runs without any dramas,
 cheers

YEP where do i sign  

Michael you made the big arsed statement , why not instead of sarcasm explain how you will be measuring bikes travel ? and is your system the official MA system ?

[motomaniac]

there's no specified way to measure the suspension travel

The way to measure rear wheel travel is at the centre of the rear wheel axle in a straight line between the fully compressed and fully extended positions. To achieve an accurate measurement any bottom out bumpers should be removed , unless they are made of solid rubber which doesn't allow itself to be compressed.

Any other methods out there?

[motomaniac]

If you dont accept the rules that everyone does , just stay home, we don't need your bull shit  at these meetings ,
Change the rules if you want,  there are ways to do it ,if everyone agrees to have longer travel ,get off your arse and make it happen ,

So what are the rules that everyone accepts ?

No modified rear ends?
No more than 9" front and rear.Measured how?
No bigger than 38mm ? Or no bigger than 38.1mm?
Does original rear shock mounts mean no aftermarket swingarms for longer shocks?
How about some clarification from those who will be having the final say instead of leaving everyone confused and then making accusations of peoples bullshit?
 TM Bill has asked and got nowhere.
How many repeated goes do you want?

[Marc.com]

there's no specified way to measure the suspension travel

Any other methods out there?

I mean you really should remove the springs to get the real suspension travel, trying to compress them on the day with 2 fat bastards pushing down on the bike is a travesty. Then you would check the vertical movement of the axle in relation to a fixed point I guess....... I think it has been mentioned but if you wanted to build real cheater at the moment you could create a bike with 12" of chain adjustment.

Its funny when these bikes were actually being raced they just tinkled your spokes, flipped your pegs and checked you had 10 cent pieces in your bar ends. Life was so much simpler then.

[motomaniac]

there's no specified way to measure the suspension travel

Any other methods out there?

Then you would check the vertical movement of the axle in relation to a fixed point I guess....... I think it has been mentioned but if you wanted to build real cheater at the moment you could create a bike with 12" of chain adjustment.

Except the start and finish points of travel are never vertical , since a swingarm travels further above horizontal than it hangs down when the shocks are uncompressed.

You measure the travel with the axle in the centre of adjustment but yer take your point there.

[Nathan S]

there's no specified way to measure the suspension travel

The way to measure rear wheel travel is at the centre of the rear wheel axle in a straight line between the fully compressed and fully extended positions. To achieve an accurate measurement any bottom out bumpers should be removed , unless they are made of solid rubber which doesn't allow itself to be compressed.

Any other methods out there?

To be very boring about it, there needs to be a specified load for the travel measurement.
A standard rubber bump stop will compress fairly easily to about half it's original length, then it gets radically stiffer. By the time it's down to around a third of its original length, it's damn near solid - and flexy old 1970s frames and swingarms will be giving more "travel" than the shock absorbers.
Foam rubber bumpstops typically give more useable travel relative to their free length (the exact amount varies considerably, depending on the design and material used) but are also typically longer...

Also, those old rubber mounted shock eyes will provide a noticeable amount of extra movement at the wheel, particularly with forward mounted shocks.

If you want to dismiss these factors as irrelevant, then I'll point out that they make about the same difference as the extra travel of a '77 Montesa, Husky, KTM, YZ, etc etc...

I'd also argue that if you're measuring travel, then it has to be measured with the chain adjusted to the same position that the bike will be/was raced in. The obvious cheat (if this shit made a difference, which it doesn't) would be to modify the swingarm to offer lots of adjustment, and actually run it a lot further back for racing.

Tea-storm-cup.

[Suzukal]

Do you honestly think no one will protest you over an extra 1” or even ½” of  travel , think again. People will protest over the smallest things.
What about CZ rear sprockets, should have been riveted not bolted on …( that’s got to make you quicker by at least a minute a lap ) … protested.
Remember Conondale … handle bar rubber mounted triple clamp instead of solid ( there’s a good 30 second a lap advantage) … protested.
At this moment right now, people say they won’t protest you, ( but we know they will )… they don’t want to be petty, what’s an extra 1”, it doesn’t give that much advantage, but wait till race day and you beat someone who didn’t have that extra 1”.
They finished out of the points because you had 10” not 9”… protest, protest, protest … gimme that trophy.
Sorry, got carried away again.
If you don't want to be protested for having more travel than you should, or you're not worried about the rules, just ride around at the back of the pack.
No one would pay $70 to protest you out of 15th place....you hope.

[Nathan S]

Bullshit Al. Your bike sat higher than any other RM125C on the start line. The wrong top triple wasn't the source of the protest, it was just the easiest/clearest thing for you to be protested on - rather than going down the painful path of measuring the travel of your forks (PE175N or whatever they were).
The protest was successful and you did not appeal, so don't complain about it three years after the fact.

Edit: I had nothing to do with the protest. Your bike probably would have been ignored if not for the two RM-Cs at the same event...

[tmman]

  pretty sure when we raced these bikes back in the day the guard seemd to be the bump stop,, or didn't you guys ride em??? 9 odd inches measured from full droop to guard!! pretty sure unless you have frictionless plastic the tyre rubbin on it will slow you down,, simple easy!!! any way it doesn't really matter how much travel one has if your fork /shox are modified!!! who checks the rules on that?? pretty sure if you put stock suspension on reed, stewart, voloputo etc bikes one of em would break there neck on the first lap,, n they run same length.. rule should read 9" or to manufacture's spec,,you supply data sheet sweet of ya go race son..

[Marc.com]

Except the start and finish points of travel are never vertical , since a swingarm travels further above horizontal than it hangs down when the shocks are uncompressed.

But shouldn't you measure the bike sitting in the air from the extended shock until the fully  compressed shock, but seriously I am not sure a practical method has ever been devised that could be carried out in the pits before a race, it is very fanny by gas light.

Of course you can always force everyone to use the shitful original shocks and like TMman so rightfully noted the available suspension travel will be dramatically reduced. OR heres an idea....only allow cheap Chinese shocks comparable with the Japanese fly wire door closer ones of the period..... no Ohlins or external dampening adjustments.