VIPER. Ideas for 2012

[mainline]

.For a lot of years the cfa ect did the corners at meetings with the clubs giving them a donation , but i think mv put a stop to this.

We still do similar up here, no probs with MQ as far as I know

[bigk]

Discussion is good, hopefully something positive will come from it all. Here's a question though, if the hosting clubs don't want to/can't supply flaggies (let's get away from track design & grooming for a moment), why do I have to pay $50 to enter, then be expected to pay another $10 to pay someone to flag? The riders are being taking for bunnies and treated as the "cash cows". If we have to flag & ride on a poorly prepared track, the entry fee should be $10. Groveling & begging clubs to run meetings is detriment to the whole thing and has formed a mentality amongst the clubs that VIPER is a pushover. It's got to be a two way street, which benefits both riders and the club, draw the line in the sand now and begin a new phase. It may result in only one or two meetings with the clubs that do do the right thing (there are some), but man they will be grouse meetings. Why is it that the vinduro's and the likes of HBBB & the CD's are becoming increasingly popular? Coz, there's no stress, you pay your money and go riding. Change or combine the classes as much as you want, but it WON'T fix the inherent problems and the numbers will stay low. Until it becomes more fun (not just the riding part), it will die a slow and painful death. There can also be some changes to make the organisation & running of events smoother & easier for the hosting clubs, but those idea's have seemed to have fallen on deaf ears.
K

[geoff22]

The flaggie problem is a big one. I dont know the answer. However from a personal point its just too hard for me. I have a young son that just breaths motorcycles and goes whenever I ride so what am I supposed to do with him when it is my time to do corner duty. I also over the last couple of years dont exactly enjoy the way we are spoken to at riders briefing

[Davey Crocket]

Theres alot of good ideas in there boys, and I agree with the bullshit about cancelling the meeting cause theres no flaggies....FFS ...we get that shit up here too...just pay them a decent amount of dough rae me....when I did motard a few years ago they had a core group of people who flagged....free entry....money.....lunch and drinks etc.....no bullshit. I also dont see why there should be a separate 4 stroke class.

[maico police]

K as I said earlier we people and our old bikes aren't as important to the clubs as we think we are. We're a side- show at best and a pain in the arse to the rest.

If we could be fully self-reliant in the area of flag marshells then we'd be a lot more appealing to clubs.

[maico police]

I'd rather race six meetings on the tracks we have than two on some farmers paddock that's been prepared within an inch of its life.
We race motocross for Chris' sake. Ride to the conditions. If there's stutters, get through them as best you can. If there's a step-up and you don't fancy it, get over to the left and roll it. If you're farked after two laps, get fitter......

[BAHNZY]

For a lot of years the cfa ect did the corners at meetings with the clubs giving them a donation , but i think mv put a stop to this.

Two reasons it stopped.
The Victorian Government based volunteer groups (CFA, SES, etc) undertook a significant OH&S study some time back and this type of work, where little or no training had been provided, was vetoed.

Some of the sanctioning bodies overseen by MA came to much the same conclusion. Individuals that have not been adequately trained within the required competencies were seen to be more of an issue than the actual incident on the track.  For most events, Flag Marshals must be certificated, something that you can’t ever expect to do on race day.  

The reason that a blind eye is turned to committee & club members doing Flag Marshalling and not being trained is because most will have a significant amount of “Prior Knowledge & Experience” and would be deemed competent to do the task.

[BAHNZY]

I also over the last couple of years dont exactly enjoy the way we are spoken to at riders briefing

Yep, got to say that one event where a particular track was a little ordinary and the Clerk of the Course had been questioned over this ridiculous uphill double jump, stood up, in a rather harsh voice, and said, (from memory)

Its motocross, if your a wimp and can't ride the track then f@#k off.

[bigk]

And here I was thinking you were asking for suggestions on how to get the riders back, doh my mistake. OK, I'll cough up the dough, get spoken too like a child, hold a flag or suck someone into doing it, miss some races, try not to get intimidated by the semi supercross track built by the dad whos think's his son is the next Chad Reed and hopefully won't get to take an ambo ride after braking my bike in half on some potholes & whoops made by the hosting clubs modern riders the week before. Then when it's all over on the 3 hour drive home convince myself that I've had a great day of fun & the $300 it's cost for the day was well worth it. Nothing different there Ross, why should it change? You're guaranteed about 20 riders with this attitude and the clubs won't come a that and why should they? Front up each meeting with 100+ riders and see how it changes, but it won't change unless you can attract the riders. Taking the big stick to the riders is the wrong approach. Taking a clear, concise meeting plan & proposal to the clubs outlining the benefits for them if they meet some simple criteria is the correct approach. VIPER is at the hosting clubs mercy with little or no control, this is what needs to change and can be changed with the correct approach. Working in conjuction with the clubs to present a great venue & great atmoshere is the way. The meetings are for the riders, more riders means more fun for everyone and more money for the clubs. Obviously the current way is not working, so change it.
The old addage that this is motocross, toughen up for fu&% sake just doesn't cut it with me. Sure it's MX, but we should start on a safe, groomed, VMX appropriate track to start with. Most of us are old farts who have to go to work on Monday. This doesn't mean we aren't cometitive and don't want to race hard though. Personally I can't see VIPER change without a serious attitude adjustment by everyone involved.
K  

[John Orchard]

And here I was thinking you were asking for suggestions on how to get the riders back, doh my mistake. OK, I'll cough up the dough, get spoken too like a child, hold a flag or suck someone into doing it, miss some races, try not to get intimidated by the semi supercross track built by the dad whos think's his son is the next Chad Reed and hopefully won't get to take an ambo ride after braking my bike in half on some potholes & whoops made by the hosting clubs modern riders the week before. Then when it's all over on the 3 hour drive home convince myself that I've had a great day of fun & the $300 it's cost for the day was well worth it. Nothing different there Ross, why should it change? You're guaranteed about 20 riders with this attitude and the clubs won't come a that and why should they? Front up each meeting with 100+ riders and see how it changes, but it won't change unless you can attract the riders. Taking the big stick to the riders is the wrong approach. Taking a clear, concise meeting plan & proposal to the clubs outlining the benefits for them if they meet some simple criteria is the correct approach. VIPER is at the hosting clubs mercy with little or no control, this is what needs to change and can be changed with the correct approach. Working in conjuction with the clubs to present a great venue & great atmoshere is the way. The meetings are for the riders, more riders means more fun for everyone and more money for the clubs. Obviously the current way is not working, so change it.
The old addage that this is motocross, toughen up for fu&% sake just doesn't cut it with me. Sure it's MX, but we should start on a safe, groomed, VMX appropriate track to start with. Most of us are old farts who have to go to work on Monday. This doesn't mean we aren't cometitive and don't want to race hard though. Personally I can't see VIPER change without a serious attitude adjustment by everyone involved.
K  

Agree

[maico police]

Ok. The whole thread was meant to be about ideas for this year. People seem to be happy with the way things are. We'll just leave it at that then......

[motomaniac]

The old addage that this is motocross, toughen up for fu&% sake just doesn't cut it with me. Sure it's MX, but we should start on a safe, groomed, VMX appropriate track to start with. Most of us are old farts who have to go to work on Monday. This doesn't mean we aren't cometitive and don't want to race hard though. Personally I can't see VIPER change without a serious attitude adjustment by everyone involved.
K  

I wasn't there to hear that , wish I was . Telling guys in their 40's and 50's who are still racing motocross to toughen up !!Fuggin hilarious.
 

[motomaniac]

Ok. The whole thread was meant to be about ideas for this year. People seem to be happy with the way things are. We'll just leave it at that then......

People obviously aren't happy Ross but how is offering less going to attrack more?
and K is dead right about taking to the riders with a stick but its not a new thing or exclusive to VMX.

[maico police]

What I'm talking about Brent is combing classes to make it a real race, not four guys following each other around. When you have twenty people or more it looks and is exciting! Less is more because we could actually have four rounds.

And by saving money on trophies we could actually be using that money to promote ourselves! You know. Show it off a bit TO ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE.

But anyhow, as I said, people seem to happy to leave things as they are so I guess that's what'll happen.

[bigk]

Your ideas have merit Ross, but it's not the crux of the problem and won't increase rider numbers. Making clubs want a VIPER meeting by showing what can be achieved with proper organisation is what will increase numbers, and that in turn will fill the grids. Take sign in for example, it's always a long drawn out experience for everyone, especially the poor hosting club member who got asked to do it and really has no idea. Then there's the scoring system which changes with each hosting club as they have a different approach, no frickin' wonder there's always a stuff up. I've outlined how to streamline it and take the pressure off the clubs for the last 3 years now, but it seems I'm the only one who thinks it needs a re-hash. There's more than one way to skin a cat, the only thing for sure is that the cat needs to be skun!
K