the new look VMX rule book

[oldfart]

 Suspension top mount on Tm 250 75 model  has been moved forward by approx 25mm and the swing arm mount has been brought forward by aprrox 80 mm and this is the problem.
Yes I have a 75 model TM 250 and will ride it as a 75 model because that's what it is ( and I like the look of them )

Chris look outside of the square, there are shit loads of old Ts 125 -185 - 250  and so on that will all fit in this bracket, with a angle grinder and a bit of patience you have a cheap racer.

I think this is the point DT is trying to put across.
    

[firko]

While I disagree, I won't be digging through the drawer looking for sharp implements, I'm cool with the refs decision . However, if someone feels strongly enough about making the '75 TM legal for pre '75, it's their perogative to do it through the official proposal process.

Wait until you see what Yamaico and I have up our sleeves for the next forum project. It fits right into what this discussion is about .

[Doc]

I live outside the square Stew Are you certain the swingarm pivot is fwd by 80mm? This would need the motor to be moved forward 80mm also as the engine cases are the same. I still believe the '75 TM250 is well out of it's era in  pre'78 and this puts the model in no mans land in both desirability or practicality. I don't race so for me it's all about perception of what fits where and why. A TM250M still looks and performs like any other TM250, a far cry from any RM.

[huskibul]

     There's probably a few bike's fit in that no man's category doc, including 75' maico's - look closer to the 74' than the 76'

[oldfart]

oops , was supposed to read  "swing arm shock point"

Is that frame still up for grabs....

[Nathan S]

Pre-78 will never have huge fields, for two main reasons:
1. There's a limited number of eligible bikes (and I mean bikes, not models), due to the relatively short period that eligible bikes were made.
2. The vast majority of 75 models are significantly inferior to the vast majority of 77 models, effectively further restricting the bikes that people want to race, to the 77 models and some 76s.

Pre-85 is in a similar position, for similar reasons. Being the book-ends to the legislative oddity of Evo makes this inevitable.

Pre-78 is a great class and deserves better support from the punters.

-------------------

211, does this mean that the big conical hub of the DT-B is legal for pre-75?

[Doc]

no worries Stew, I should have better interpreted what you meant and yup, the frame is still on offer to dissect at your leisure

So bottom line on the TM250M, it's just the top shock mount and the lower shock mounts that are the defining factor. Hardly a justifiable excuse to exclude the bike as a flow on thus apparently placing it out of era. If travel is adjusted accordingly where lay any real world difference, they are as close as they get. There were more changes being made in the era between '73 and '74. 

[Curly3]

Hey look, a whole new Pandora's box.

P.S. I should add that both Col & Dave have done a fantastic job and thanks.
      Shame that Evo didn't have age titles up in Briz, I would have won one.

[Moto]

211
     Interested to know why the Mk8 (250's) were dsq from the nats? they had too much travel or because of their serial numbers.

[firko]

  Interested to know why the Mk8 (250's) were dsq from the nats? they had too much travel or because of their serial numbers.

I'd asume that it's because the Mk8 is a 75 model. The same reason the TM M is not allowed.

[Iain Cameron]

rules are rules , I would love to ride my MXb 250 and 400 in pre 75 but the rules say no . Iainyz

[Tahitian_Red]

rules are rules , I would love to ride my MXb 250 and 400 in pre 75 but the rules say no . Iainyz

Weren't you in Les Miserables? 

[211kawasaki]

211
     Interested to know why the Mk8 (250's) were dsq from the nats? they had too much travel or because of their serial numbers.

They were 75 models, were asked to ride the 78 class and not the pre 75 class, they didnt want to do that.

[211kawasaki]

Pre-78 will never have huge fields, for two main reasons:
1. There's a limited number of eligible bikes (and I mean bikes, not models), due to the relatively short period that eligible bikes were made.
2. The vast majority of 75 models are significantly inferior to the vast majority of 77 models, effectively further restricting the bikes that people want to race, to the 77 models and some 76s.

Pre-85 is in a similar position, for similar reasons. Being the book-ends to the legislative oddity of Evo makes this inevitable.

Pre-78 is a great class and deserves better support from the punters.

-------------------

211, does this mean that the big conical hub of the DT-B is legal for pre-75?

Yes

[211kawasaki]

no worries Stew, I should have better interpreted what you meant and yup, the frame is still on offer to dissect at your leisure

So bottom line on the TM250M, it's just the top shock mount and the lower shock mounts that are the defining factor. Hardly a justifiable excuse to exclude the bike as a flow on thus apparently placing it out of era. If travel is adjusted accordingly where lay any real world difference, they are as close as they get. There were more changes being made in the era between '73 and '74. 

Doc, the swingarm is different, the frame at the top mount is different and this gave the 75 250 6 3/4" travel. Where do you stop? The same arguement is with the 75 Honda 250 and I just think that there will always be fringe dwellers weather the pre 75 class or the pre 85 - shit pre 65 has classic examples of exactly this and there has to be a cut off somewhere.
On the TM250 75 model - I just want one and its well known that I have been looking for a good one for years. I would race it in pre 78 - even Freaky can get 4th on one so they cant be all bad