The definitive best pre 74 250 thread

[JohnnyO]

Note the LTR suspension - 1973 .



http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/asp/classics/bike.asp?id=96

Most of the factory bikes had LTR suspension in '73. Gary Jones rode for Honda in '73 and this is his '73 works bike, in the other pic he's on a '73 CR250 production bike. In '74 he rode Yamaha.

[Tahitian_Red]

I believe in '74 he rode a Can-Am.   ('72 Yamaha, '73 Honda, '74 Can-Am)

In US Vintage MX it seems to be YZ250As, Ossa Phantoms, Husky Mags and Tricked out Elsinores that are in the winner's circle more times than not.

[JohnnyO]

I believe in '74 he rode a Can-Am.   ('72 Yamaha, '73 Honda, '74 Can-Am)

Yes you're right... brain fade

[Husky500evo]

Being a lover of Frankenstein hot rods, I'd love to build the ideal racer using the best legal components available. I'd use a '74.5 LTR Maico frame and forks, the best handling bike in the category. I'd use the amazing Rotax 250 engine from the Can-Am, a Yamaha MX250 front hub, the best brake of the lot, and a Montesa Cappra rear hub, among the lightest and most beautiful legal rear hub. The Rotax engine is pretty good as is but amazing gains can be made with pipe,rotary disc and modern ignition mods. Add the plastic Can-Am tank, aftermarket plastic guards and a pair of Ohlins shocks and I doubt anything would match this baby on the track.

    My Maico/Rotax hybrid project has stalled because of work commitments and I didn't get to enter it in this years Nats as planned, but I hope to have it going for next years in QLD. Geoff Morris did all the hard work for me, like fitting the motor into the frame and making the pipe and I probably should have asked him if he could have made me an airbox while he had the bike there. It has been brought to my attention that the pipe may have the longest stinger section in the world, so I might look at having the muffler under the seat, with a tail pipe out and around the top of the left shock. I was going to use a Yamaha front wheel like Firko mentioned in his post, for the strongest front brake.I even looked at a Montesa VR rear hub that I had lying around a while back ,but from memory, it was too wide for the Maico swingarm.
      I was lucky enough to have a ride on a Can Am MX2 250 on the pre '78 track at CD8 and was very impressed with the amazing motor.     

[mx250]

  that pipe has a bit of welding involved .

It will be interesting hybrid. I for one will be interested to hear of your ride impressions.

It looks a neat fit .

[Davey Crocket]

I remember lifting that into Brads trailer at the last nats.

[Nathan S]

I remember Geoff swearing about how difficult it all was to make fit

[Husky500evo]

I remember Geoff swearing about how difficult it all was to make fit

    I think that Geoff would have been cursing me for insisting on an up-pipe, where a down pipe would have been far easier to make and fit . It's just that most of the race tracks that I will get to ride the bike on will be at modern bike meetings, where they allow us to run some vintage support classes. A down pipe would be destroyed in no time on these type of tracks. I may look at getting a down pipe made at a later date to avoid controversy when I take it to a title meeting. The up-pipe has a bit of a "Poison Lil" look about it and will probably annoy some of the purists. I don't think that fitting the motor to the frame would have caused major problems, as there seemed to be plenty of room and the sprockets lined up fairly well.
    In any case , I don't think that I will be troubling the guys on the rostrum in the pre '75 250 field, as I am only an average rider and it seems like a very competitive class. I just want to try and have the most competitive bike to make up for my lack of ability  . Even though I couldn't get enough time away from work to ride at the Crystal Brook Nats, I still managed to drive down from NQ to spectate for Friday and half of Saturday's racing. One thing that I noticed , was that the front runners in some of the classes were on models of bikes that would have been my last preference. For example, the guys up front in the pre '78 125 class were on CR125 M3s. You wouldn't have seen this back in 1977, when most of the fast guys would have been on RM125Bs or YZs, which were far better bikes than the '77 Hondas. Also the guy leading in the pre '78 250 class was on a '75 CR250 Honda  . Just goes to show that it comes back to a formula, that I think is about 70% rider, 20% bike and 10% luck, in winning races  .       

[firko]

Cool bike Mark. I remember having a deep discussion over a vintage congac (honestly) with my old chum Rick Doughty over the pros and cons of various hybrid combinations. He and I came to the conclusion that the Rotax / Maico hybrid would be the perfect combo for pre '75, closely followed by a YZ250A powered Maico.
I actually bought a TNT 250 to bastardize for the engine to build my version but I couldn't bring myself to break up a complete and fairly rare bike to build a hot rod. I soon abandoned the plans and moved on to other stuff. I'm glad you've taken up the challenge Mark and if it's as nice as your other tackle it'll be a formidable bit of kit.

[mx250]

 One thing that I noticed , was that the front runners in some of the classes were on models of bikes that would have been my last preference. For example, the guys up front in the pre '78 125 class were on CR125 M3s. You wouldn't have seen this back in 1977, when most of the fast guys would have been on RM125Bs or YZs, which were far better bikes than the '77 Hondas. ............... that I think is about 70% rider, 20% bike and 10% luck, in winning races  .       

I often wonder if this is the explanation of why a bike that was renown as a 'dog' back in the day becomes a Starlet today.

It could be that bikes that were damned and doomed by a slight technical imperfection were avoided like the plague - there just wasn't the time or inclination to develop a bike (by the punters (mass market) that is - dealers and distributors may have had the time, money, expertise and motivation.

It could also be the simply application of some modern technology can turn a 'dog' into a Starlet - e.g. suspension or a bit of porting etc.   

[Lozza]

It could also be the simply application of some modern technology can turn a 'dog' into a Starlet - e.g. suspension or a bit of porting etc.   

........and we're all a bit older and smarter these days

[firko]

I often wonder if this is the explanation of why a bike that was renown as a 'dog' back in the day becomes a Starlet today.

Back in the day we took what we read in magazines very seriously so when a magazine hammered a bike like the TM400 or SC500 we believed them. In many cases the magazines were correct in ther assumptions but they often went overboard, hammering bikes that except for a few small flaws, weren't as bad as they made out. For example: Maico 250's always copped a hammering from the press but on the track their so-called shortcomings weren't all that noticable. The press never thought much of TM250 Suzuki's, considering them heavy, boring beginner bikes but since the advent of vintage racing the model has been one of the more popular and succesful bikes in pre '75. In fact, in that short suspension era all Japanese bikes copped criticism, some deserved, some a bit cruel. The Euro bikes were generally better but the difference wasn't as big as Dirt Bike or Motocross Action would have you believe.

Today, thirty years later we've learned a lot about set up and suspension so even if a bike didn't cut it back in '74, the improved fork technology, shocks, ignition and pipe design have worked wonders on improving what probably wasn't all that bad a bike in the first place.