Noel: Fernando said I can't race the postie! :o

[firko]

I think it's pretty obvious that the rulebook needs some tidying up. I wonder who is going to do it? Who is going to spend their precious spare time going through every sumbission, checking the press of the day to verify if submissions are in fact legitimate and to reword the whole thing so that even the dopiest among us can follow it?

Sure there are some glaring mistakes that often come to our attention. I ask however, have any of you who race vintage dirt track or vintage motocross ever had what they felt to be an unjust eligibility decision based on whats written in the MA Manual? Have any of you been protested because you innocently built an illegal bike or entered the wrong era or class? If so you have a damn good reason to complain but I'd be willing to bet that very few, if any of you have ever had any problems.

I've been both a scrutineer and eligibility steward at numerous National and State titles in previous years and can't recall any cases were a racer was harshly done by as far as eligibility. Many situations arise that call for the scrutineer to make a judgement call, one being a flat tracker with disc brakes at the 98 Nepean Dirt Track titles. I made the call that the single spot Airheart brakes fitted were indeed period and as they offered no performance advantage (they are fairly ordinary in performance) we let the guy race. On the other side of the coin I have found many racers who have ignored the class restrictions in the rulebook and deliberately tried to decieve their fellow racers and the scrutineers. 99% of racers however have no problems with eligibility as I feel that 99% of the situations are covered.

The way some people are reacting to this is a little worrying. For most situations our rulebook has done us proud. We have relatively minimal eligibility problems compared to other diciplines including the modern divisions. Most racers see the rulebook for what it is, a guide to help you select and build the right bike for the right class. If your particular case is one of the few that went through to the keeper when the compliance list was being compiled, come to the races with published proof of your claim and if it's legit, the scrutineer must let it through. An example of this was at the 2000 Nats at Ravenswood. Brad Lewis turned up with a 1974 KTM 250 Enduro with factory laid down shocks restricted to 4'' travel. The scrutineer, Peter Drakeford initially knocked the bike back citing that it was a '75 model as the '74 model had conventional shock placement. Brad to his credit produced a mountain of published proof that while the '74 motocross KTM did in fact have conventional rear suspension, the enduro version had laid down rear suspension with increased travel. Drakie had no option but to pass the bike. This was a good example that if you can prove the rulebook wrong with strong evidence, the scrutineers have no option but to pass it. Fortunately these situations rarely arise.

At the risk of repeating myself, the rulebook is indeed in need of a revision but to call for a wholesale overhaul is not needed. A little tidy up is all that's warranted.

[firko]

I agree with Mboddys assumption on the PD valve/Gold valve situation. Emulators are a reasonably recent product that hadn't been thought of when the rules were formulated. I don't care either way whether they are allowed or not. Whatever is decided it must be plainly shown in the rulebook. VForce style reeds might be another thing to look at as well.
Programable ignitions....and so on.

[husky61]

Agreed

The rule book at best needs a few minor touch ups and revisions.

The rule book has for a very long time served us very well and it is real shame in some respects when it is referenced at meetings.

The basic overview is that most people honour the context of the rule book and probobaly have minor enhancements on their rides that probably in the real sense would not comply.But in real terms the enhancements would not give the bike an unfair advantage .

Given that many parts are no longer available and you sometimes have to make do , there is really not alot you can do to get a signifigant advantage. There are many great and i mean great back yard engineers making do and that is clearly shown on this forum on a regular basis. Just look at some of the work that Doc's turning out. That i beleive is what the whole movement is about. Check out some of the recent completions from NZ. Nice work and again remember this is a hobby sport.

As we all know you could have the best bike in the world or all the sneaky non complying go fast parts you can get your hands on , but if cannot ride the thing well its no good anyway.

How may times have you seen a gun rider turn up at a meeting on a shitter , real shitter and flog the field , more times than i care to remember , driving home thinking i spent all this money on this great looking (complying machine) and get done by 20m by an original shitter that came straight from the chock shed. You cant buy skill no matter how much doe you got.

So all in all it doesnt really matter cause the gun's going to win ,but its great fun giving your best chase.

So just remember next time if your skillful enough to get a place or maybe a win , how good is this and if you dont , man there is always next time.

Dont protest , rejoice in the fact that you restored it , scored it from the chock shed , or got it from elsewhere, remember your blessed with the oportunity to ride it with your mates and try harder next time. Have fun

Dont loose the focus , old guys on old bikes having fun or young guys on old bikes having fun , diitto for the girls.

PS: If you have emulators good luck to you .

Shoey

[Wombat]

414, I notice you're counting?
The topic 'Where have all the old boys gone' had a fair swag - 151 posts and read nearly 3500 times.
I'm not sure which topic holds the record but 'postie' must be creeping up on it.
Freaky knows how to check these things; which topic got the most reads and posts pls Freaky?

I love this forum; what seemed a simple observation (of course it's not Vintage if it's 2003!!) has become a truly interesting debate!

Let's have another intermission before we squeeze out another nine pages...

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[Hoony]

Nice Doubles !

[Graeme M]

All the stats are here, and it's CD5 that's the winning topic so far...

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?action=stats

[All Things 414]

That truely is a tall building. Round of applause for Freaky breaking the 1000. On with the bitchin'. C'mon boys! Don't run out of puff now.......

[Freakshow]

Thanks 414 its a pleasure to have reached the 1,000 post milestone against stiff competion espiecially paul who must work from his morning paper and the dictionary to think up another post :O)

I just hope that in all this great posting we back up al the good stories, you can cull the shitters , but the techinical and historical posts need saving and protecting less we have a repeat of that shameful day the turks raided out forum and brought it to its knee's.   IM not sure how it can be funnel but i reackon some threads need to be archieved onto a new partition in case we loose all that tasty information every again.

and yes for the record CD5 is infront with the dark horse or should i say dark sheep 'my new project' coming a very credible 3rd !

[Freakshow]

The Scrutineer does not check your bike for safety.
He checks that it conforms to the rules in the MoMS.
  

really.......pffft ..... then why does my scrut push my bar ends, tings away at my spokes with his spanner, shake the shite out of my swing arm bearings, stamps on my brakes, amougnt other things, are you saying he expects my proof of eligbility to fall out from under the tank or somewhere ? 

thngs must be differant up there.............................. 

[mboddy]

The Scrutineer does not check your bike for safety.
He checks that it conforms to the rules in the MoMS.
   

really.......pffft ..... then why does my scrut push my bar ends, tings away at my spokes with his spanner, shake the shite out of my swing arm bearings, stamps on my brakes, amougnt other things, are you saying he expects my proof of eligbility to fall out from under the tank or somewhere ? 

thngs must be differant up there.............................. 

I have now reread the MoMS and my notes from my Scrutineers course.

The Scrutineering Manual from my course states:

The express purpose of scrutineering is to ensure that machines and riding equipment comply with the requirements of the G.C.R.s
and that the manufacturer’s standards of mechanical integrity have been maintained.
Under no circumstances is scrutineering to be considered, or referred to, as a safety check.

 

[Rosco400]

The express purpose of scrutineering is to ensure that machines and riding equipment comply with the requirements of the G.C.R.s
and that the manufacturer’s standards of mechanical integrity have been maintained.
Under no circumstances is scrutineering to be considered, or referred to, as a safety check.

  So if I have a bike with a couple of missing spokes and flogged out wheel bearings etc, it is still OK to ride at a race meet

[Freakshow]

If ya get a scrutinner that has sat the MA course(training) at your entered event, I don't think you will get too far.
Well lets hope he picks it up for the safety of yourself and others on the track.
Or at least some one has a camera to film ya going end over/ass up on the track.

heheh dam right sista !

[Nathan S]

The "it's not a safety check" thing sounds like legal arse covering rather than anything else.
The vague thing about 'ensuring original standards are maintained' acheives the same, but the use of weasel words stinks of lawyer alert...

I've done the CAMS Scrutineering course, and they have similar wording.

[mboddy]

So if I have a bike with a couple of missing spokes and flogged out wheel bearings etc, it is still OK to ride at a race meet

No, because the manufacturer’s standards of mechanical integrity have not been maintained.

[Freakshow]

thats crap i heard all those euro bikes where made by little old ladies in a sweat shop and they were reemed by hand........... they came out sloppy

i hear even stranger things about those red bikes