Rudd making comeback.

[shorelinemc]

yep joh was a crook,but he did put qld 1st,then himself.the golden casket was originally to support our free hospital system where does that money go .when joh was around we where the lowest tax state think we are highest.nothing wrong with a bit of graft and corruption as long as the job gets done

[oldfart]

  Why did all the southerners head up to sunny QLd in their retirement years
          1  - We had a better Hospital system.
          2  - to avoid paying state duties on deceased estates.

Joh was also one of the key players in  Gough Whitlams  sacking. 


 
         
 

[firko]

I doubt Labor will govern in their own right for a very long time after the next election.  Whether it is due to the back room boys/unions or their getting into bed with the greens and the time old Labor tradition of not being responsible for their spending largesse, etc. They are truly lost in my opinion- and that hurts as someone who will never vote Lib. The big boys in town want them gone- miners/media etc, and if you take the time to peel off that stuff their ideas are not as bad as portrayed. The miners can and should pay a  s...load more for taking massive profits from a finite resourse, the majority of whose profits go OS etc. You do have to put a price on carbon  otherwise there is no disincentive for the big polluters to ever change their ways. We had the GFC and stimulation was required- just look at the rest of the 1st world countries and how they are going compared to us etc etc. Take your extreme right Christian opp leader- a younger Bush- and let him go. Do you think we will ALL be better off?  

My thoughts in a nutshell but despite my bitter disappointment in our leaders on both sides of the political coin, I'm pretty content with the lifestyle I have in this country. It annoys me to continually hear the  negative aspects of our society while the overwhelming positives of living in Australia are totally taken for granted. We've become a society of whingers and conspiracy theorists, searching high and low to find something to complain about.
 Sure our polititcians suck, but have a look at the wankers at the helm in America, Italy (insert troubled country of choice here) and the even worse opposition they have to pick from. Compared to what other countries have to put up with, we're doing OK.

Have a look at Detroit and New Orleans in the USA to see whole cities decimated by governmental bad decisions and their inability to provide care for their citizens and be glad you live here. Next time you're shopping in the supermarket and complain about having to pay $9 per kilo for bananas think about the poor bastards starving to death in Africa to whom one rotten banana would be akin to a lotto win. Next time you complain about your health system, think of the people without "health care" in the USA who actually die because they can't afford the treatment. A friend in California had to mortgage her house to afford a life saving bowel cancer operation. Could you imagine the hoop-la if that situation existed here? None of that even compares to third world countries where children die with shameful regularity because there are no doctors to care for them at all. Next time you complain about those evil boat people coming here to start a new life, try thinking what it would be like to be in their boots, having to risk everything to avoid povety, political despots and nothing positive to look forward to except more of the same and worse, that we haven't an inkling of understanding (or even trying to understand). Have we as a society become so uncaring that we can't accept troubled people into the safety of out society?

Stop whingeing and smell the roses my friends. Appreciate what you've got, this country looks in pretty good shape from where I sit.  

Despite my vow of not getting involved in these "discussions'' I couldn't resist it any more. I still believe these discussions have no place on a VMX forum but all of this negativity has got to me.

[Shaun G]

[/quote] yes coming in on a boat ,but 1st they flew into indonsia,why dosnt indonsia look after there muslim brothers!!!!
[/quote]

Yes mate agree 100%

Unfortunately we have no influence over Indonesian policy and as a first world country have a moral obligation to protect regugee's. Until such time as an individual has been processed we as a country should facilitate humane care to people who are claiming refugee status no matter how they arrived on our shore's.
This is where 3rd country processing is wrong. The numbers arriving are small (on a world scale) and we are a rich country which should be well equipped to help people in less fortunate circumstances.

Cheers
Shaun

[Davey Crocket]

Why should we acept refugees (and I say this loosely as they all seem to have plenty of money) from Indonesia and spend a motza on them when we cant even look after our own.......Aboriginies come to mind.....fark em off....get our own house in order and then maybe we can take some of these so called refugees......we've fought a couple of wars to get what we got and to let people just walk in off the street so to speak doesnt cut it with me....call me a racist or whatever but dont fall for the puppy dog look.

[Nathan S]

We accept around 15000 refugees each year. We send plenty of would-be refugees away.

The ones we accept are mostly Chinese and Burmese, with only tiny numbers of "arabs" or Africans.

Apart from legal aid for their refugee application in some circumstances, asylum seekers get sod all from our government. Accepted refugees the dole, nothing more.

Being a refugee has nothing to do with wealth or education or anything else. It purely relates to whether you can safely remain in your homeland.

[Montynut]

We accept around 15000 refugees each year. We send plenty of would-be refugees away.

The ones we accept are mostly Chinese and Burmese, with only tiny numbers of "arabs" or Africans.

Apart from legal aid for their refugee application in some circumstances, asylum seekers get sod all from our government. Accepted refugees the dole, nothing more.

Being a refugee has nothing to do with wealth or education or anything else. It purely relates to whether you can safely remain in your homeland.

Firing from the hip again Nathan must be a Labor thing. The most recent Gov stats
Burma 1959, Iraq 1688, Bhutan 1144, Afghanistan 951, Congo (DRC) 584, Ethiopia 392, Somalia 317, Sudan 298, Liberia 258, Sierra Leone 237

The highest number of Refugees accepted by Australia during the last seven years was the 05/06 year with almost 14500 while the figures have been between 13000 and 14150 for all those years. Australia has always had a very receptive policy to true refugees regardless of the Governments makeup.

The present hassle is all about the unscrupulous business of people smuggling and their customers who are trying to jump ahead of refugees who use the internationally recognised method of gaining refuge by declaring their status at the first point of ‘safe’ haven. Instead of flying into a ‘safe’ country then destroying their documents and putting themselves, their children and those who have to try and rescue them in unseaworthy boats to gain an advantage.

Both parties have a similar ‘policy’ of off shore processing just the method of doing that is the issue. One method worked and one doesn’t. You can argue and have the ‘last word’ as you always like to but those are the facts.

[Montynut]

We accept around 15000 refugees each year. We send plenty of would-be refugees away.

The ones we accept are mostly Chinese and Burmese, with only tiny numbers of "arabs" or Africans.

Apart from legal aid for their refugee application in some circumstances, asylum seekers get sod all from our government. Accepted refugees the dole, nothing more.

Being a refugee has nothing to do with wealth or education or anything else. It purely relates to whether you can safely remain in your homeland.

Firing from the hip again Nathan must be a Labor thing. The most recent Gov stats
Top 10 in order Burma 1959, Iraq 1688, Bhutan 1144, Afghanistan 951, Congo (DRC) 584, Ethiopia 392, Somalia 317, Sudan 298, Liberia 258, Sierra Leone 237

The highest number of Refugees accepted by Australia during the last seven years was the 05/06 year with almost 14500 while the figures have been between 13000 and 14150 for all those years. Australia has always had a very receptive policy to true refugees regardless of the Governments makeup.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

The present hassle is all about the unscrupulous business of people smuggling and their customers who are trying to jump ahead of refugees who use the internationally recognised method of gaining refuge by declaring their status at the first point of ‘safe’ haven. Instead of flying into a ‘safe’ country then destroying their documents and putting themselves, their children and those who have to try and rescue them in unseaworthy boats to gain an advantage.

Both parties have a similar ‘policy’ of off shore processing just the method of doing that is the issue. One method worked and one doesn’t. You can argue and have the ‘last word’ as you always like to but those are the facts.

[Nathan S]

How new are those figures, Greg?
I researched this quite thoroughly a couple of months ago - maybe newer figures have been released, but I'm not shooting from the hip.

Late Edit because I couldn't see the link on my phone:
Ah, OK - last time I looked, they were older figures than 09~10.
What's happened to all the Chinese refugees?

FWIW, Australia has since placed caps on refugees from Iraq and possibly Afghanistan - so regardless of whether an asylum seeker has a legitimate case, we're going to automatically reject some of them solely on the basis of their nationality...

[firko]

What the fu*k does it matter where they're from? If they're escaping genuine hardship and opression they deserve to be treated like human beings and not used as political football.

Let's set up a hypothetical situation here.......An evil middle eastern dictator takes over the United States and starts killing and raping Christian White Folk and taking away their homes, rights and priveleges. To escape this evil tyranny boat loads of those white folk start landing on our shores looking for a new start. I reckon there would hardly be a wimper of protest, we'd welcome these poor opressed 'christian, english speaking white folk' with open arms and resettle them with all of the medical, financial incentives and legal rights we bestow on ourselves.

 Of course it might still be a bid difficult for those black and Mexican Americans to be accepted as they'd have to "learn English and dress like us".   

[jerry]

Out of interest ( Mexicans aside!IE real Mexicans not Victorians!) how many refugees does the USA accept per annum and what is their policy. I don't ever remember seeing refugee boats landing on the shores of the states. By the way have you seen the Tea party candidate theyv'e thrown up. Forget her name but she reckons she has had a message from God to run for office! Makes Tony Abbott look like a moderate. Watch the blood pressure Firko by the way! Cheers Jerry PS What about John Orchards efforts down at Broadford. What a legend.

[firko]

Watch the blood pressure Firko

Thanks Jerry but my blood pressure's a workable 140/70 so there's no need for concern. If you're thinking I'm getting all hot and bothered....wrong. I'm as cool as the bottle of 2010 Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc that's in the freezer being prepped for dinner. I'm merely trying to make light of this xenophobic 'not in my backyard' attitude to refugees. I don't get cranky since the bloke who posted in red ink bit the bullet.

[vmx42]

What the fu*k does it matter where they're from? If they're escaping genuine hardship and opression they deserve to be treated like human beings and not used as political football.

Let's set up a hypothetical situation here.......An evil middle eastern dictator takes over the United States and starts killing and raping Christian White Folk and taking away their homes, rights and priveleges. To escape this evil tyranny boat loads of those white folk start landing on our shores looking for a new start. I reckon there would hardly be a wimper of protest, we'd welcome these poor opressed 'christian, english speaking white folk' with open arms and resettle them with all of the medical, financial incentives and legal rights we bestow on ourselves.

 Of course it might still be a bid difficult for those black and Mexican Americans to be accepted as they'd have to "learn English and dress like us".   

+1

[Montynut]

What the fu*k does it matter where they're from? If they're escaping genuine hardship and opression they deserve to be treated like human beings and not used as political football.

Let's set up a hypothetical situation here.......An evil middle eastern dictator takes over the United States and starts killing and raping Christian White Folk and taking away their homes, rights and priveleges. To escape this evil tyranny boat loads of those white folk start landing on our shores looking for a new start. I reckon there would hardly be a wimper of protest, we'd welcome these poor opressed 'christian, english speaking white folk' with open arms and resettle them with all of the medical, financial incentives and legal rights we bestow on ourselves.

 Of course it might still be a bid difficult for those black and Mexican Americans to be accepted as they'd have to "learn English and dress like us".   

My point exactly trying to argue that they are this or that nationality by birth is pointless as it changes with the international climate (political not warming ) . Australia has a long history of welcoming Refugees regardless of the political persuasion of the Government at the time which we should be proud of.

The only point of discussion should be how to stop greedy opportunist from taking money from these people to chuck them in stinking creaking hulk and setting sail to trying and smuggle them into Australia. The customers of these pricks are trying to jump the queue to get in front of others who may be in more need of assistance by using their better financial position. You can argue they are just doing their best or I that I would do the same thing etc etc but it does not change the fact they are trying to jump ahead of others that have done the right thing.

There was a system that, while not pefect, had stopped the boats at their source. The system was reasonable fair as Australia maintained control of the process and the arrivals had access to education, medical and other support. Most importantly Australia could ensure their safety. Why was it scrapped

[AjayVMX]

There was a system that, while not pefect, had stopped the boats at their source. The system was reasonable fair as Australia maintained control of the process and the arrivals had access to education, medical and other support. Most importantly Australia could ensure their safety. Why was it scrapped

It was scrapped because a guy called Kevin Rudd was the Prime Minister of Australia... 

Anyway, someone in the Labor party said that they would chew off their own hand rather than vote for Rudd to replace Julia again...