Aftermarket frame welders

[firko]

I've been asked a number of times why I love aftermarket framed vintage racers so much. Like all of us I appreciate good workmanship and with my being a boilermaker/TIG welder by trade I can't help appreciating the craftmanship that goes into a hand made aftermarket or works frame. Where most standard production frames are MIG or robot welded, the small volume guys most often use either TIG or bronze welding (brazing) on their products. I was Googling this morning looking for something completely apart from VMX when I came upon a 2009 thread on http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13029447 relating to the fine welding these craftmen produced.

With utmost respect to the source of these photos Im posting them here for you to check out for true TIG welding craftmanship. I'll got out to the shed a bit later to photograph my Hindalls, Metisse and Cheney to show the same quality but in brazing.
Below: Ray Hemsley was a pioneer in TIG welding motorcycle race frames, he'd worked with frame pioneer Kenny Watkins at Sonic Welding where he honed his TIG skills.

Lyn Kasten welded all of his REDLINE frames. He built motocross,and BMX frames as well as flat trackers.

My personal favourite TIG welder has to be the late, great Doug Schwerma of CHAMPION Frames fame. His welding was beyong reproach in my eyes. Like Kasten at Redline Shwerma also made MX and BMX frames.

[Slakewell]

Firko
I purchased a new welding helmet this year with built in optical lenses, the difference is amazing I can do the fine TIG again, If you don't have one already I can't recommend highly enough. I'm even thinking of doing a project of my own custom frame again. 

[firko]

Here's some of Harry Hindalls work:
My Hindall Yamaha 360

My Hindall Yamaha 250

My Hindall Ducati

[head]

Hi Mark where do you get those helmets and ho :'(w much. I am struggling with my eyes when welding. Is it a auto darkening helmet.Thanks Neil.

[firko]

Neil, it's not me with the helmet it's Slakewell. My eyesight's not so good welding either, I'll probably need one myself .

[flower pot racing]

what a feast for the eyes.....

[Marc.com]

I hear what you are saying Friko, old Eric knew how to braze one up and that is part of the attraction of Cheneys and Rickmans you can feel the love.... plus if you compare it to the welded products our of Jaapan at the time there isn't a comparison.

But my welding craftsmanship vote goes to Spondon, FTR, Harris the bespoke British alloy frame makers, a Spondon is assembled and tacked, dismantled, polished and prepped, retacked, welded, normalised, polished there are about 10 very painful steps and a lesson in total weld prep and purity.

My TIG is decent and the only welding I like to do.....but I am not truly worthy,

[Lozza]

Todays production aluminium frames's weld quality is as good if not better than days of yore. Time would be the key the bespoke frame builder does not have XX amount of minutes to weld a frame.

[vmxken]

Not all Japanese frames from the '60s had crappy welding.  Have a look at the welding on the rear shock bracket/gusset on my '69 F21M (ignore the welding on the seat bracket above the shock mount, that is not OEM welding).  All the welds on the frame are of the same quality as that on the shock bracket.  Doesn't look too different from an aftermarket job!

Ken

[firko]

That's pretty impressive for a Japanese production bike Ken, especially one so old.  The Suzuki and Yamaha product of the same era was MIG welded and as strong as it is, it's visually quite ugly. TIG weldings big downfall is that it's very time consuming, making it a pretty expensive proposition for big production runs. From memory the F21M was a comparitively low volume bike that was bordering on 'works' bike type availability in its day. How many F21M's were produced Ken? If I didn't know better, I'd say those frames were made in the USA.

[vmxken]

I do have the production numbers somewhere but can't find them at the moment.  The F21M certainly sold in far fewer numbers than the 100cc (G31M) version.  What is stated definitively in the F21M Instruction Manual I have is that the frame and swingarm are CrMo, which would have been very special for a Jap bike in the '60s.

Ken

[JC]

Yes, they were low volume Mark. 1st prod'n cro-mo jap frame too, if I recall correctly. They are very light.

[firko]

I hear what you are saying Friko, old Eric knew how to braze one up and that is part of the attraction of Cheneys and Rickmans you can feel the love....

Yeah Marc, Eric may have been a cranky old codger but he most definitely knew how to run a bead. Here's an overexposed shot of my Cheney's steering head area (I'll replace it with a better shot later on today ). I'll also drag out and  my Metisse and Boyd and Stellings Suzuki a bit later to add to the aftermarket frame show

For the non welders among us note the easily spotted difference between the American flat track constructors TIG welds and Hindall and Cheney's brazing. They're vastly different techniques achieving the same result. To the uninitiated you'd think that Harry Hindall (USA) and Eric Cheney (UK) had learned to weld at the same trade school, their welding being so similar. When it came to welding new engine mounts in my Cheney flat tracker I had access to TIG and one of the best welders in Sydney offering to do it for me but in reverence to Harry I opted to braze them. Even though I did the best job I could muster, a blind man could tell the Firko welds from Harry's work .
 Anyone else got some frame welding shots to add to the mix? Jim, what about your Star Racer and Wassco?

[Slakewell]

Hi Mark where do you get those helmets and ho :'(w much. I am struggling with my eyes when welding. Is it a auto darkening helmet.Thanks Neil.

I got mine from Jaymac welding in Tamworth , $300 or so

[ksiderek]

I remember Eric Cheney telling me he was taught to braze by an old woman that used to build Huricane fighters in the war!! I was taught by Miles Webb 35 years ago and I've nearly got the hang of it.