What is this thing called carbon tax?

[motomaniac]

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Um, MM, why shouldn't a govt build capital? How should they do it without taxation?

Are you joking?
Not long ago when some of us predicted that the incurred debts of the Rudd government would lead to more tax's you called it "fear mongering".Now are you admitting that this carbon tax is about collecting revenue?
Yes the Government should be fiscally responsible and not irresponsible , yes the Govt should budget and function within its means like the rest of us.
You have just admitted that this tax is about raising revenue and that the people you labelled "fear mongers" were justified in predicting more tax's to service the previous Rudd Goverments incurred debts.

[mx250]

Does any one want to bet with me that in 5, 10, 20 years time we'll still have the same or greater level of CO2, we'll still have the Carbon Tax and we'll still have the argument with the Greenies saying "we were right, it's just that you didn't set the Price higher enough". 

It's a forking bad dumb policy. It's like throwing a pack of cards into the air. We know they'll all come down but which ones are facing up and which ups are facing down they have no idea.

It never was going to work and now it is sooooo compromised it definitely won't achieve the stated environmental aim - reduction of CO2 emissions. The unstated aims of self interest will be handsomely rewarded with Julia and Bob et al retiring on fat govt pensions.

The next Big Argument will be measuring the results. There will be legions of public servants, there will be fudged numbers in every quarter and the system will be ripped off by every one that can. And again, it will those that cann't move or rearrange they circumstances, it will be those on fixed incomes and it will be those whose wages feed multiple users of energy (i.e. The Family Man) who will be screwed.

[AjayVMX]

Here's an interesting article on what might happen in the medium term...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/black-hole-in-governments-carbon-tax-compensation-plan/story-e6frgd0x-1226090123278

[Mike52]

I am beginning to see that there are those who want to save the planet [ Greenies ] and those who have spent all our money and need an excuse to raise more.
The two mobs are running together and the whole thing is a complete cockup.

[VMX247]

whole thing is a complete cockup.

they are going to charge 23$ a tonne on emmisions (according to paper) and Coal is how much a tonne to get out of the ground ??
yep its a cock up and someone extra employed in the government Carbon Tax office to work it all out..
quote : God help Australia ..................................
cheers A

[mx250]

Here's an interesting article on what might happen in the medium term...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/black-hole-in-governments-carbon-tax-compensation-plan/story-e6frgd0x-1226090123278

"Treasury's CPRS modelling assumed the rest of the world, including our major competitors, implemented a similar scheme." Yeah, right. India and China and the rest of the developing world have already said that 'the west caused the problem the west can fix the problem. We're too busy playing economic 'catch up' and need every penny we can lay our hands on'.

That's one of the 52 cards I was talking of. Some many assumptions. Even the basic economic premise of control price and supply and demand will alter to fit in is wrong. Pricing Theory and market economies are much more complex than that. Absolute naive stupidity. 

A lot of the so called Greens have been renamed 'watermelons' because they are green on the outside and red (socialists) on the inside. This would fit into their agenda. There has been for a long time a school of Socialist/Marxist academic economists who believe the long term capitalist (in the Marxist concept of purposely exploiting workers and colonies) should give up their ill gotten power and wealth and redistribute it back to the former exploited colonies. This Carbon Tax would meet that agenda.

[mx250]

What I said .....but said better

"prickley pear Posted at 11:11 AM June 01, 2011

    So single-income families on $81,000 will be penalized, and dual income families on $158,000 (2 x $79,000) will be compensated. Sounds fair. Business as usual by this government."

GST revisited - a great big new tax where the D.I.N.K. and Yumpies walk away happy and the Family Man gets another kick in the guts. What would you expect from two gays without any interest in having a family . 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/money/an-80000-carbon-tax-pain-barrier-from-professor-ross-garnaut/comments-e6fredkc-1226066915435

[mx250]

A lot of the so called Greens have been renamed 'watermelons' because they are green on the outside and red (socialists) on the inside. This would fit into their agenda. There has been for a long time a school of Socialist/Marxist academic economists who believe the long term capitalist (in the Marxist concept of purposely exploiting workers and colonies) should give up their ill gotten power and wealth and redistribute it back to the former exploited colonies. This Carbon Tax would meet that agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM 

[Nathan S]

Are you joking?
Not long ago when some of us predicted that the incurred debts of the Rudd government would lead to more tax's you called it "fear mongering".Now are you admitting that this carbon tax is about collecting revenue?
Yes the Government should be fiscally responsible and not irresponsible , yes the Govt should budget and function within its means like the rest of us.
You have just admitted that this tax is about raising revenue and that the people you labelled "fear mongers" were justified in predicting more tax's to service the previous Rudd Goverments incurred debts.

No, are you?

I questioned your comment that suggested that governments shouldn't raise capital, and also suggested that they could realistically do it without taxation, both of which seemed like pretty interesting concepts.

[motomaniac]

Are you joking?
Not long ago when some of us predicted that the incurred debts of the Rudd government would lead to more tax's you called it "fear mongering".Now are you admitting that this carbon tax is about collecting revenue?
Yes the Government should be fiscally responsible and not irresponsible , yes the Govt should budget and function within its means like the rest of us.
You have just admitted that this tax is about raising revenue and that the people you labelled "fear mongers" were justified in predicting more tax's to service the previous Rudd Goverments incurred debts.

No, are you?

I questioned your comment that suggested that governments shouldn't raise capital, which comment wasthat?

and also suggested that they could realistically do it without taxationwhich comment was that?, both of which seemed like pretty interesting concepts.Yer they would be if thats what I said.The point is that we have existing tax's ,we had capital, rudds government spent all the capital that we had and much more putting us into substantial debt and now the new tax's are coming to pay for it as the "fear mongers "predicted but actually whats going on is much deeper than that.

[motomaniac]

Jeff... Let the puppeteers win?

What is the goal of the puppeteers?

The goal of the puppeteers is to maintain their control of cause.

[motomaniac]

I am beginning to see that there are those who want to save the planet [ Greenies ] and those who have spent all our money and need an excuse to raise more.
The two mobs are running together and the whole thing is a complete cockup.

Yes the "Greens" and enviromentally concsious are being duped into thinking that this is going to save the enviroment and the "left are being duped into thinking that it is a strike against the big corporations and the "rich" when actually it is about capital and control and about as far right as you can get.

[Nathan S]

....
. If we are already paying carbon tax like this dick says its not having much effect on us moving away from fossil fuels so how is "the new" carbon tax going to be any different?Its not ,they just want to build capital with the average Joes money.What a joke.

I'll also add that Howard left us with a pile of cash (good) which was largely accumulated by neglecting captial expenditure (bad).

Labor robs Peter to pay Paul, while Liberal robs Paul to pay Peter.
Either way, some punters are gonna be unhappy - until we collectively grow the f#$k up and accept that our own personal demands are not the only demands placed on the govt, OR we grow the F$%k up and accept that it comes at the cost of more tax, there will always be people who are unhappy with the government, regardless of who is in power...

[VMX247]

I dont think there are that many silly Greens out there ...is there ?

Back to the Carbon Tax its self...
1:It will take business off shore, even more than it is now.  
2:We need to come inline with other countries greener power and move forward(including nuke power).
3:its going to cost --whos going to pay !!
4:the earth as we know it, is doomed anyway  
cheers A

[Marc.com]

2:We need to come inline with other countries greener power and move forward(including nuke power).
cheers A

Yep big up the nukes Alison, i'll drink to that .... hey wait a minute I am already drinking to that

BRG Radioative Man