What is this thing called carbon tax?

[motomaniac]

Next question .Why are we being taxed to force ourselves to change our ways and use less fossil fuels when the goverment, who is spending lots of our money to convince us that they must do this to us to save us from ourselves, signing over gas fracking to multinational corporations who are going to wreck our own peoples farms and land in the process of drilling for coal gas to extract the gas and sell it to an overseas country that already has most of the world manufacturing faclilties and big industry but no carbon tax or ETS scheme?

Just curious.

P.S What happened to Krudd's clean coal initiative ? No good? Of course not.A tax would be way better wouldn't it?

[motomaniac]

The GST was a fat lie.

NO ARGUMENT THERE BUT WHO WAS LYING? The one who first purposed it in parliment ,the one who ran an election campaign on it and lost or the one who finally impl;emented it?

Both sides lied. It is another example of the public debate being tainted and manipulated by pollies, bureaucrats and academics for their own interests. Poor public debate leads to poor policy. The Carbon Tax will be the same.
[/quote]

Yes , just link all the dots up . Can you see the puppets?
Ready for the neo feudalism?

[mx250]

Spain's experience with simply demonstrates that the "easy way out" of reducing pollution (govt subsidies for alternatives) isn't gonna work.

No. I think it shows that putting stupid amounts of money into proven inefficient second rate schemes for 'feel good' reasons is a dumb idea with predictable outcome. If you put that money in directly or with some 'slight of hand', 'smoke and mirrors' Carbon Trading scheme makes no difference.

Neither the Govt, the Greenies or the economist really know the outcomes with the Carbon Trading Scheme. It is a case of 'Do something, do anything, but spin it and win the next election .

[Canam370]

Hope they don't start Fracing for gas here. Watched a doco about fracing for gas in the US called "Gaslands" the other night. Very upsetting. If you really want to see a disaster in progress NOW and getting worse all the time, and the impact on the average citizen, this is a compelling show. Fracing is supposed to be low impact and clean.......like hell!

[motomaniac]

Hope they don't start Fracing for gas here. Watched a doco about fracing for gas in the US called "Gaslands" the other night. Very upsetting. If you really want to see a disaster in progress NOW and getting worse all the time, and the impact on the average citizen, this is a compelling show. Fracing is supposed to be low impact and clean.......like hell!

Its happening here , Gov signed a multi Bill $ deal with US company to drill and sell to China and India - Australia gets a commision of course! Good one eh?

[mx250]

Yes , just link all the dots up . Can you see the puppets?
Ready for the neo feudalism?

As one wag once said; when talking about Aussie pollies, if you have to choose between corruption or incompetence you would back incompetence every time .

(No, I don't see neo feudalism or any other conspiracy. I see a poor and disappointing political process with a usurped public debate).

[motomaniac]

Please watch and wake up .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hRPRxXFg4&feature=share

[mx250]

Hope they don't start Fracing for gas here. Watched a doco about fracing for gas in the US called "Gaslands" the other night. Very upsetting. If you really want to see a disaster in progress NOW and getting worse all the time, and the impact on the average citizen, this is a compelling show. Fracing is supposed to be low impact and clean.......like hell!

Yep, it's a worry in every account. And the stampede to extract is a greater worry.

[Canam370]

Effen pigs. That slipped quietly by. What were the Greenies doing besides hugging each other? See you later clean aquifers. Hello poisoned land, well farms, hydrocarbon venting, carcinogenic waste products. Great.
 Criminal behaviour from our not always elected representatives. Geez thats pissed me off.

 It really is criminally irresponsible to go this way when the shit is hitting the fan in the US and the problems are so obvious. You're right, its a stampede so $$$$ can be made before it all gets shut down. I'd rather have a nuclear reactor in the backyard - its safer and cleaner. Shit.

[motomaniac]

[quote author=motomaniac link=topic=19750.msg196431#msg196431 date=1309864986

(No, I don't see neo feudalism or any other conspiracy. I see a poor and disappointing political process with a usurped public debate).

After the failure of Copenhagen when the third world and emerging countries said no. BO has since gone a visiting to convince South American and other countries that they must impliment a CT.
Australia is to set up a special bank which will make the leap to the to global system a smooth one.The money will then go to a Goldman Sachs Bank in Switzerland.

[FAT-TOY]

Re: What is this thing called carbon tax?

« Reply #76 on: Today at 06:06:26 PM »

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 (Does any body really still think the GST was a bad idea?
 pancho)

    Do we realize how much the government actually gets from the GST.  If I buy a new car 10% of the cost is GST, when I trade it in and it's resold another 10% and on it goes for the history of that car whenever it passes through the hands of a dealer and that would be quite often.  It's feasible to think that could be as many as 4 maybe 5 times and, it could be more.  So it is possible that our government could recieve as much as half the original purchase price of that vehicle in tax.  I might be wrong but was the old (sales tax) only for new and not used sales, and cars are only a tiny bit of the market place.  Also this tax is placed on services as well as goods no wonder the bastards wanted it.
                                                                            Zane

[AjayVMX]

I don't think it really matters whether you believe in mankind induced climate change or not.  Even if you do, the issue of climate change is a global one and anything that Australia does is totally and utterly irrelevant.  Why?

Currently Australia emits 1.4% of the worlds CO2 emissions.

Even if all of Australia's CO2 emissions ceased completely today:  The increase in China's emissions (at the current and future predicted rate) would make up for ALL of Australia's emissions in 6 months from now.  And there's NOTHING we can do to prevent that happening.  Nothing.  

So ask youself:  

Why should we, a country that has a natural economic advantage of low population, low cost (fossil fuel produced) energy, suddenly burdon ourselves with a Carbon tax that will achieve absolutely nothing, other than possibly destroy what little economic advantages we have now and cause dramatic economic harm?  Just to "feel green" ?  You've got to be joking right?

So, regardless of whether you believe in climate change or not, it just is not in all of our best interests to shackle ourselves with a Carbon Tax or ETS until China does something meaningful about it's emissions.

[TooFastTim]

NP X 24 X 365.25 X 1000 where NP is Nameplate Capacity, 24 hours in a day 365.25 days in a year (leap year the .25) and 1000 to convert from MW to KWH.

This gives the total maximum power. Capacity Factor is actual delivery compared to that figure.

Err, that's not power, that's energy. Power = energy / time, so power x time = energy.

If Nameplate Capacity is the rated power then rated power is the MAXIMUM it can produce.

[pancho]

 having been and failed in business I know that the gst meant more paperwork for most and a hell of a lot more paperwork for those businesses that had been paying NO tax till then,[Who remembers the businesses that suddenly dissapeared just before the GST was implemented] but now we pay 10% instead of sums varying from 15%or so up to sales tax up near 40% for everyday items e.g. toilet paper,soap, tooth past, and other things like TVs etc around 30%. That's one reason why all these things are so much cheaper now. The big problem with the states not getting a "fair go" out of it is 'cause the states and the feds wont agree how it should be spent.
cheers

[mx250]

I don't think it really matters whether you believe in mankind induced climate change or not.  Even if you do, the issue of climate change is a global one and anything that Australia does is totally and utterly irrelevant.  Why?

Currently Australia emits 1.4% of the worlds CO2 emissions.

Even if all of Australia's CO2 emissions ceased completely today:  The increase in China's emissions (at the current and future predicted rate) would make up for ALL of Australia's emissions in 6 months from now.  And there's NOTHING we can do to prevent that happening.  Nothing.  

So ask youself:  

Why should we, a country that has a natural economic advantage of low population, low cost (fossil fuel produced) energy, suddenly burdon ourselves with a Carbon tax that will achieve absolutely nothing, other than possibly destroy what little economic advantages we have now and cause dramatic economic harm?  Just to "feel green" ?  You've got to be joking right?

So, regardless of whether you believe in climate change or not, it just is not in all of our best interests to shackle ourselves with a Carbon Tax or ETS until China does something meaningful about it's emissions.

I have my doubts about the Carbon Trading regardless but my bigger concern is 'Why Now? What's the hurry?"

And I think there are smarter and more effective ways of achieving the aim with scientific research etc.  and govt direct and indirect investment in such.

Now I might concede the urgency of the Global Warming argument, the high moral ground or world example/leadership reason is a pretty weak way of getting China and India to change. And if they don't and don't change quickly............