All time great bikes?

[Nitram]

With all due respect for the opinions from the many highly respected campaigners contributing to this thread  , I have two things to say:

Firstly, it's pretty clear to anyone with eyes in their head that there is ONLY ONE truly great all-time great bike in the great grey mass that generally passes for VMX bikes, and here's a picture of one that I noticed in my backyard on the weekend   




Downsides ?
    - some would say.... bog ugly....but then that's in the mind of the beholder.  I personally find that the style sort of grows on you.......... after a while.
    - the suspension is pretty average.  The pre-'75 boneshaker does just that, and in my experience a stock '80 PE175 steers, jumps and slides nicer than a '80 Can-Am with it's Marzocchis and Ohlins.
    - they bristle with innovative thinking and novel ideas, most of which don't work.  Whether its the radical and complicated adjustable steering head bearings, the rubberised shim-adjustable swing arm pivot, or the lashings of magnesiums castings in the crankcases and brakes, the reality is that I spend most of my time figuring out how to get standard Jap parts to fit.

Upsides ?
    - They go like an absolute shower of shit !    When the gate drops the Can-Am drives forward like nothing else -all the way through the revs- and the other bikes front wheels disappear backwards at a very satisfying rate !  For a mug punter (like me), it's a huge advantage, and that's why they sold them by the truckload in the States in the mid and late '70s.   


Secondly, in regard to the modern four-stroke thing:
    - My mate just bought a second hand '03 520 KTM.  I went for a ride and could stop smiling and raving about it.  Just perfect ! As well as being the massively grunty from way down low all the way through the revs (bit like a Can-Am actually  ) with sensational handling, braking, sliding and jumping, it's also capable of being toodled along to enjoy the scenery, and despite the awesome performance, it doesn't dominate the average rider the way really sharp big two stroke can do. 
    On the way home from it's first decent ride the big end shat itself and the amount of slop in the rod, he was lucky not to have written off the piston/barrell and the head as well.   :'( 
    I don't think I agree that the modern 4 strokes will be the death of the industry (that's pretty extreme !),  but it's pretty clear that the next generation of VMXers will have a much more expensive task to keep these modern 4 strokes on the track than we have with our '70s and '80s two strokes.  But then.......... isn't that their problem ?

Cheers,

Nitram













 of VMX 

[vmx42]

Hi Guys,
Sorry again for hijacking your thread. But...

I don't really care if bikes are 2 stokes, 4 strokes or 3 stokes [or electric???] - what sticks in my craw is when the rule makers take the sport off in a new direction with no real thought for the consequences of their actions.

It's a sad day when our little end of the motorsport pool sold itself to the big end of town to join the 4-stroke bandwagon. The rule makers used the ENVIRONMENTAL CARD as justification for their actions. If that had truely been the motive behind the rule changes then surely they should have specified some emission limits [for both NOISE and noxious gases] for the machines and then let the market place determine the best technology to reach those targets and still deliver bikes that compare to what we are used to [ie. cheap to run, simple to work on, safe to buy second hand, tolerable noise levels, etc, etc, etc!!].

MotoGP is in the same boat. A more responsible and far sighted set of rules would have set emission limits and a maximum amount of fuel to complete the race [I know they have a tank limit now]. Rules worded in this fashion would encourage new technologies and reward innovation - not just pick 4-strokes as the winner in the Technology race. Imagine the excitement at a race with 4 stokes, 2 stokes, Rotaries [probably not but it sounded good] all with different approaches to the same problems racing together.

The same issue pops up all the time with regard to street bikes [and cars]. The US legistators don't specify 4-strokes in particular but the do BAN THE USE OF OIL IN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER. What they should be concerned with is what comes out the end of the exhaust and the TOTAL environmental footprint of a vehicle.

For example the current Hybrid technologies that are being promoted in the market place as the GREEN ALTERNATIVE are anything but. When you calculate the total environmental footprint of these vehicles [ie, the amount of carbon dioxide used in the manufacture, transport to market, running for a 10 year period, consumables (oil, petrol, parts etc)] in comparison with the existing technologies. When you add up all the true consumables and emissions then Hybrids actually emit the same level of pollutants as a mid-size [Australian, not US] 4 wheel drive. Hardly the GREEN Alternative especially when you now have to dispose of 500kgs of toxic batteries.

I love all the new technologies, but rules for motorsport [or general transport] should reflect reality and not try to pick the winner. We close the door to all kinds of advancements if we go down this path - humans should be smarter than this! The days of cubic capacity based classes should be gone forever and replaced with classes based on measureable environmental criteria. Don't hold your breath...

VMX42

[mx250]

I'm with you VMX.

New FIM rules for MotoGP; you have 20 lts. the race is 160kms and starts at 2.15pm. 

[vmx42]

Hi mx250,

I wish I could be that succinct.

vmx42

[AjayVMX]

It would be nice to be that simple, but of course I think the reality would be far from simple.  Maybe honda would build a $20 million oval pistoned V8 to satisfy this requirement 

Probably great in terms of application of racing technology, but counter-productive in terms of the racing spectacle....

So we end up with rules again and so it goes...

[vmx42]

Sorry, my fault. I did appologise at the time for hijacking the thread, but sometimes these things take a life of their own.

VMX42

[VMX247]

I'll add these bully bikes to the all time great bikes list,they are available in all manner of degree and parts are also available  cheers
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170563566215&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[MX?]

- humans should be smarter than this!
VMX42

    Guess you could apply this to most fields of human endeavour!
Might use that if ya don't mind?


Great advances in bike development? 
RV Suzuki's
Dual range Ag bikes
TX500 Yammies
Rotary roadies
Fantics

[evo550]

One bike that always seems to miss out on this type of thing, but if you look back at any mention of it "in the day" it's the best bike/motor ever produced.
84-87 Husqvarna WR400.
I challenge anyone to find an anything but a glowing report of this bike and yet 2 people remember it. Me and Smed. Weird.

[Boyracer]

Too many bikes over the years from different era's but the Yamaha DT1 was the starting point, the CR250 keeps popping up, for me the '84 and '86 were classics, the '82 '83' 84 KX500 are also special, not to mention the YZ250J and RM250Z.

[smed]

I remember the 4hunert Husky Evo,had a 85 WRX,6spd box,went like stink!

[TT]

the '82 '83' 84 KX500 are also special

An '82 model KX500 would indeed be something special! Cos they didn't make one!! 

Funny (but kinda cool) how bikes that were considered crap way back when are sometimes remembered fondly today and vice versa. 

For example, the US mags generally came to the conclusion that my beloved SP370's were a better all round thing than the TT/XT500. Try and and find someone (other than me) that thinks that today. 

[frostype400]

1971 Tm400.

[Curly3]

Coming from a Speedway / Short Circuit background, my nomination would be the Hagon Grasstracker.
This Slider chassis was a revelation in the mid 60's and it spawned a plethora of home made copies.
Whatever your favourite engine was, there was a chassis to suit, JAP, Jawa, Bully or jap crap you were competitive.
The lack of Sliders in current Dirt Track originally surprised me but given the performance and handling of the modern MXer it's understandable.
All hail Alf the legend.