Author Topic: Asymetrical brakes.  (Read 1975 times)

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mx250

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Asymetrical brakes.
« on: January 28, 2008, 02:41:35 pm »
Asymmetrical brakes, ever heard of them? Here's a photo of the shoes...




And here they are mounted on a Monty VG414. big bastards arn't they :o ;D


Okay engineering guru's, whats the big idea. I would guess greater braking power with the larger leading shoe without the disadvanage of the twin leading shoes (barely work rolling backwards, complexity, cost weight).

Offline Lozza

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 05:53:57 pm »
I can only surmise there maybe a greater moment or torque exerted on the leading shoe, due to the greater distance from the pivot point.
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Offline Tim754

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 10:56:22 pm »
How about a pissed Spanish engineer?           Ripper bike!!!!!! ;)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 11:05:00 pm by Tim754 »
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mx250

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 11:01:20 pm »
How about a pissed Spanish engineer?
Sorry, I don't think so Tim!!!

(Sorry, I just had to say it  ;D)

Offline brent j

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 12:11:52 am »
The longer, leading shoe wraps into the drum more than a half shoe and provides more braking power.

Some of the old type cranes with mechanical clutches use similar type arrangments.

The smaller shoe would give more braking power during reverse rotation (reading flying down a hill backward) than a TLS setup. I've found the hard way yamaha TLS brakes don't do much on the wrong side of a steep hill.

Brent
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mx250

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 06:01:28 am »
The longer, leading shoe wraps into the drum more than a half shoe and provides more braking power.
My understanding is the leading edge 'pulls' the shoe into the drum in a self servo effect increasing the braking power. Which is why twin 'leading' shoe and double sided  twin 'leading' shoe brakes were so 'performance chic' nduring the era of drum brakes.

Some of the old type cranes with mechanical clutches use similar type arrangments.
Thats interesting. Anyone know of any other applications, bikes, cars?? Was that crane clutch in the lifting gear or the driving gear Brent?

The smaller shoe would give more braking power during reverse rotation (reading flying down a hill backward) than a TLS setup. I've found the hard way yamaha TLS brakes don't do much on the wrong side of a steep hill.

Brent
I can't imagine it would be to much of a prob in MX (if you are rolling backwards you are doing something wrong :P :-[ :D). But in enduros I can see someone been caught out on a steep hill. As a boy my first bike was a Yammy YDS5 with a twin leading f brake. In the car park and drive way, and stopping on steep hill caught me out a few times. When it rolled backwards and you had your foot off the rear brake you really had to squeeze the f brake to have an effect :P ::) :D.

Offline Tim754

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 09:54:50 am »
Check a lot of car drum brakes and you will find the odd length and sized shoes have to go on a particular way. Duo servo system with hydraulic activation as mentioned above by the knowledgeable happy non pissed MX250 *  most likely the Monty's along the same principle?
*  But could be pissed  ;)
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Offline brent j

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Re: Asymetrical brakes.
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 06:29:51 pm »
MX250,

The old P&H cranes used clutches on the lifting winches, boom winch and the slew mechanism. They use both internal and external shoes but both use the leading shoe principle and wrap with the rotation to increase the grip.

To give an example of the difference between leading and trailing.

A 5 ton winch will easily lift 6 tons with the mechanism correctly adjusted and 40lbs on the lever.

Install the lifting clutch backwards and it struggles to lift 1/2 ton with both hands on the lever and both feet against the front of the cab!  The self energising effect makes that much difference.

Brent



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