My way of dealing with a scammer

[Mike52]

There is a scam the scammer work around with the 'I'll organise the shipping bit' this is from young Jeram

there are ways to beat the scammers at their own games
the reason they can claim they bike isnt delivered is because you've made a big mistake!
you've released the bike to an unregisted courier company.
in the terms and conditions of paypal it states that you must used registered, trackable postage with signature at departure and arrival.
this is the loop hole the catch you on.
the way you catch the scammers is as follows:
sell the bike to them,
collect the money
dump it straight into your bank account and take it out as cash as soon as possible.
organise for there courier to pick up the bike.
do not release the bike to the courier unless it is the company stated by the buyer, and it is a registered courier service..
they will not send an official courier, and they cannot claim for a refund because you have forfilled your duties as a responsible seller.
and If you definitely want to put a nail in there coffin, do not release the bike untill 5days after money has cleared... this means they have to go through the normal mediated paypal dispute where you can argue your case and win if they still want to dispute it.
if you do you research, it is very easy to scam the scammer...
I suggest you research it yourself though incase Iv missed any steps...
a mate on the 125ccsportsbike forums did this, he got to keep his mito and the cash!

Guess I must be silly because I thought that if the guy had paid for the item and you didn,t send it then YOU are the scammer.
If I am wrong and there is a way to pick a scam like the one described [above] BEFORE it happens then I would like to know the secret.
If you JUST suspect that the guy is going to rip you off ,and react before he can , then there are special places that you can go to get guidance.

[LWC82PE]

Oh dear Lozza, i better fix them up, was in a rush and missed that 

[Nathan S]

Guess I must be silly because I thought that if the guy had paid for the item and you didn,t send it then YOU are the scammer.

Not in that case - in fact, you're fulfilling your duties as a responsible seller.

Remember that in this particular scam, they're actually giving you the cash, and getting the bike - it becomes a scam when they claim they didn't get the bike and you can't prove that they did get it. Then they get their money refunded.
Its a specific case, but if the seller plays strictly by the rules, their worst case scenario is that they just end up selling the bike to the scammer.

[Lozza]

Mike the important bit is the first paragraph.

You sell the bike
$$$ goes into your account(your thinking I haven't been scammed)
Then you release the bike to unregistered courier
They claim they didn't get the bike
Ebay takes the money from your account

=

you now have no bike or $$$.

Still think your the scammer?

[suz125]

this may be off topic, but...that's never stopped anyone before 

I just bought some parts for my dt from melbourne and the guy wants direct depost even though paypal is available. I am not really willing to use direct deposit, not because I think its a scam, but because I have had problems in the past and I know of others (Lozza). When I said I would rather paypal he kicked up a stink about

If we go the Paypal way its gonna cost me MORE FEES and you already got this item for a bargain price...Ive already been to the PO for you once and will need to go again to send off this item to you...Fair is fair,whats the issue to go to the bank once to fix things up my friend?..Its simple,quick,with NO COST to either of us... and there is no hurry,you can go at yr leisure..I hope we can finalize this transaction nicely

I buy RC car stuff regularly (nerd I know) and I never have anyone complain about paypal it is just the done deal in that arena. I should just be paying by paypal right?

Scott

  p.s.

Fair is fair,whats the issue to go to the bank once to fix things up my friend?..Its simple,quick,with NO COST to either of us

is that a dodgy sentence or what?

[Nathan S]

PayPal does eat into the money you make as a seller. Add in Ebay fees and it hurts a bit on stuff that you sell cheaply.

As a buyer, if I'm making the seller's life hard (trips to the PO etc) on a low-cost item, and the seller is a non-dick, then I'll offer to pay the PayPal fees and/or offer more money to comfortably cover postage. It works on the theory that paying an extra $5 or so a) Doesn't piss the seller off, & b) Ensures you get the item.

His response seems pretty genuine (no comment on whether its reasonable or not), so I'd be inclinded to think he's legit. Although a good scammer will be able to fake this, obviously.

Having said that... I'm getting dicked around on an airbox ATM. Short version is they're claiming they don't have a PP account, even though I've already paid through PP. They want a money order. *sigh* Yeah, OK, you refund my PP money and I'll send you a MO.
Deafening silence.

[steveo247]

Mike the important bit is the first paragraph.

You sell the bike
$$$ goes into your account(your thinking I haven't been scammed)
Then you release the bike to unregistered courier
They claim they didn't get the bike
Ebay takes the money from your account
=

you now have no bike or $$$.

Still think your the scammer?

is that right?
my understanding, from paypal themselves is that the money can only be refunded from your paypal account (by paypal not ebay).
So if you have withdrawn the money from your paypal account into your bank, then they cant give the scamming buyer their money back.

[lukeb1961]

I dunno... I've done 750 transactions on eBay and I have only ever had three items not turn up.
Two in four years being lost from Paul Miller Motorcycle, but not high-value items. One thing from Melbourne that Oz Post seems to have lost. One 'dodgy' sale from Canada turned up six months later! (never expect Canadian postal services to be anything except dead slow) Should I be surprised that I have not encountered scammers, riff-raff and low-life? I trust people. People are nice. I don't watch TV 

As to paypal vs direct deposit, the only person who cares is the seller. I will always go click-click-click versus find details, go into online banking create an entry look up things, go back, send the money.. WAY too many steps. If they have covered their fees in their base price, where is the drama?

Luke

[Mike52]

Mike the important bit is the first paragraph.
You sell the bike
$$$ goes into your account(your thinking I haven't been scammed)
Then you release the bike to unregistered courier
They claim they didn't get the bike
Ebay takes the money from your account
=
you now have no bike or $$$.
Still think your the scammer?

I get your point Lozza, but I have sold a few bikes on ebay and have sent one by bike courier .
Was the courier registered? How would I know? What if the courier decided that he liked the bike and kept it?
Have had a few buyers pick their bike up from here.
I have even taken a front wheel to a flour distribution centre for a guy.
Any one of these people could say that they did NOT get their bike/part.

[DR]

Steveo has it. If the funds remain in the paypal account and aren't transferred into your bank account immediately then yes, PayPal can reclaim the funds. Soon as it is in your bank then you have 'near' full control but ultimately you are even safer if you then transfer it to another savings account or such that is not linked with paypal whatsoever

[clutchslip]

Just because you have withdrawn the money from your paypal account to your bank does NOT necessarily put in a safe position..Paypal can and will turn your paypal balance NEGATIVE, and obviously have the power to enforce you to reimburse them. Payment holds, where you sell an item and then have to spend your cash on the postage, shipping your item, perhaps overseas, to someone you only know by their feedback, before seeing any of the money for it, seem to be increasingly frequent too. One other little paypal gripe that I have is regarding failed withdrawals, you try and take the money out of your paypal account, to your bank account. Mysteriously the money disappears in the ether..... last time I hand this happen to me, it was a good six week wait for my money, or rather, for the money to be recredited to my Paypal account, and thus kindly being given the opportunity to go through the whole cycle again, or spend the balance using paypal instead. On the occasions over the years where I've asked buyers to consider making a bank transfer, its been after frustrating episodes such as these...

[cappra]

With my Paypal account, I can withdraw $400 a day from the ATM at my bank.  There is a $3 charge for this.
If I transfer Paypal money to my bank electronically, it takes 3-4 days. (why?)  I just withdraw the cash, and
then deposit it in my back account.

[VMX247]

quote from suz125>>>this may be off topic, but...that's never stopped anyone before 
I just bought some parts for my dt from melbourne and the guy wants direct depost even though paypal is available. I am not really willing to use direct deposit, not because I think its a scam, but because I have had problems in the past and I know of others (Lozza). When I said I would rather paypal he kicked up a stink about



Not what we would do...play it safe with paypal...he called you friend ??  and then spitts his dummy--  Have you met before --Thats alarm bells..
cheers
http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/693900

[crash n bern]

The "My friend" bit is suss.  Just get him to send it C.O.D he has to go to the post office anyway. 

I've been getting phone scammers at work.  Aussie's.  They call and ask if you would like to adverise in a magazine or journal usually related to one of the community services like ambo, fire, cops etc.  You refuse. then a few months later they call back (Different person)  thanking you for your support and that the magazine is being distributed tommorrow and how many copies would you like and we've emailed you the bill yada, yada.  Varying versions, I nearlly got caught out a couple of times and may of actually been done once or twice in the past.  As I have legitmately advertised in police journals and other emergency services journals you start to lose track.

Iv'e had them cut and paste my adds and email them to me for approval for their advert.  I only twigged when I saw the fine print saying it was a solicitation. That and sometimes the ads are just not quite right.  This was after a phone call thanking me profusely for my support.  Some of the callers are legit people working from phone canvasing centres not realising they are being contracted by a scam company.

Here's another scam mob. A printer ink supply company in Waverley Melbourne.  They call and offer cheap printer inks and toners.  Then after the first order the prices go up.  like 3 to 4 times the OEM price for generics.  Try like $100 for a $25 ink cartridge.  Hoping that in most larger business no one will pick up that they are being overcharged.  They have caught my staff out twice and it was me who picked up on it by pure chance.  I told them their racket and I would send it back.  I sent it registered post of course.  Naturaly they can't find records of it being returned.  When they do, they ammend my account of owing a couple of hundred dollars to owing over a thousand dollars.  Lots of phone calls over a month or two to sort the shit out.  Twice I went through this, the second time I was telling them what they were going to do before they did it. 

[Canam370]

I got caught up in the journals merry-go-round myself. I get pretty busy too and trusted their assertations that I'd committed to advertising months earlier. I reckon I spent a couple of K in goodfaith until they got greedy and I was getting hammered with phone calls from every charity/emergency services journal known to man. I'd already pretty much decided at this point to pull the pin on donations/advertising with them because of all this when they sent artwork which was the same as a completely unrelated journal which nailed the decision. It is disheartening to have your goodwill and trust abused and the experience has certainly coloured the way I respond to any solicitations by charities. Even mobs like The Variety club do it - different chapters call doing the same thing so you have committed to donating to the local VIC chapter but one in SA will call later asking for the donation you've promised. If the charities can't clean up their own backyard then they will all suffer for it. Unfortunately now its fuggem' all if there is any doubt.