Should 4 strokes be given more displacement in pre 74?

[firko]

I've got no problem with pre '75 125 4 strokes being allowed to go to 150cc as the old bucket class allowances were/are but I think the 250 and up four strokers should remain in line with their 2 stroke brothers. Sure, a stock 2 stroke should produce better results than a stock 4 stroke but it doesn't take a lot of work to get a 4 stroke performing competitively, especially in the open class. I go back to Steve Greentree's pair of XL Hondas that absolutely dominated both capacity 4 stroke classes and all in competition for many years during the first VMX decade. His 250 was especially competitive against 2 strokes and it was a fairly basic unit (and legal) and Greeny wasn't the only competitive 250 Honda. Lloyd Richards XL250 slider dominated the 250 class in vintage dirt track back in the 90's.Rumors threw thick and thin that it was a biggun' and I even accused him of it in the press at the time. At the West Wyalong Classic Dirt Track Nats somebody finally protested him and to everyones shock the bike proved to be on standard bore. I apologised in print and gained a new rrespect for the XL 250 Honda (and Lloyds riding) after that.

[Lozza]

NO

Be the tin end of the wedge, the bucket rules only went to 150cc because who ever ran one got sick of being hosed by H100's. The argument was that it would be cheaper blah blah etc etc but all it did was create an 'arms race'. The capacity rules for a air cooled 4T 2 valve bucket are at either a 185 or 200cc.
Trust me that is what will happen.

[micks]

you cannot check the ma minutes cmx as they are not there, but someone put foward the same request to run up to 144cc (125 with 185 rod ? ). buckets (superlites) run up to 159cc max the tolerance is built in.the 2st run up to 111cc again tolerance built in. 

[sudman]

As someone that rides a 4 stroke pre 75 (XL350) in the up to 250cc class here in NZ
there is little or no diffrence between the top bikes in the class, at the 1st round TM Bill cleaned up on a 250 2 stroke & the Cooper 2nd with my XL350 3rd, yes on some tracks it is faster but most of the time it is very even or a little slower due to it weight which you can't do much about in a stock frame (engine alone is 48kg).

You don't see the DRM's clean up the 250 evo class it is still the red rockets out front

[tony c]

It dont matter how fast one is but if your surious and travel a good distance to each event you would like to think you've got a fair chance no matter what the track layout/conditon ect, its bloody dangerous being buried in the pack trying to get threw, Ive had a couple of title ending moments you just start to far behind.
each bike should be able to have a similiar straight line speed, why would the powers at be not encourage the 4strokes the more the merrier, most blokes ride 2 strokes because there are more around then and now, less work on and off the track wether they can or can't or have to many rides or have no time or what ever everyones different and  thats the key.

[JohnnyO]

As Tony says i think the 125 and 250 4 strokes need some help in the way of extra cc's to allow them to be competitive with the 2 strokes and it may encourage more people to front up with a 4 stroke in those classes.
The 500 4 stroke is pretty much ok as it is.

[tony c]

your right about the 500 John I put it up against bro's new 450 and smoked him 7 out 7 starts over a 100 yards.

[JohnnyO]

your right about the 500 John I put it up against bro's new 450 and smoked him 7 out 7 starts over a 100 yards.

Ha that's impressive!

[Davey Crocket]

Hey Tony, you could always go to NZ next easter and race the Taupo International meeting....ol' Billyboy will organise a big block tractor for you to race against the 2 smokes

[tony c]

That sounds good, I plan to cross the ditch one day some Of those tracks look unreal but I will be layed up with a ACL reco around easter hope to be fully fit for the nats in SA at the end of year.
I spoke to some one at MA about the 4stroke rule and he said there is no way they would compensate for them because they are replacating history they didn't allow it them and there not now, it could only appen if they started another class and so there would be no point.
I will just have to keep the throttle on longer.

[Marc.com]

your right about the 500 John I put it up against bro's new 450 and smoked him 7 out 7 starts over a 100 yards.

New 4 stroke 450s are fast enough ..... but I wouldn't rate one against equivalent capacity 2 stroke, open class 2 stroke defintiely feels faster.

I would like to see KTM do 300SX, then we would see if the 350 4stroke is all that.

[JohnnyO]

your right about the 500 John I put it up against bro's new 450 and smoked him 7 out 7 starts over a 100 yards.

New 4 stroke 450s are fast enough ..... but I wouldn't rate one against equivalent capacity 2 stroke, open class 2 stroke defintiely feels faster. 

Yes 500 2 strokes feel fast but most times a 450 4 stroke will out accelerate the 500 on dirt with better traction and power delivery. Even motard racers switched to 4 strokes for their ease of use.

[Marc.com]

Yes 500 2 strokes feel fast but most times a 450 4 stroke will out accelerate the 500 on dirt with better traction and power delivery. Even motard racers switched to 4 strokes for their ease of use.

Yep too true the 450s get traction and it seems like the 350s do even better. Its decieving RMZ450 feels like a farm bike compared to RM500 even though total output is about the same.

[suzuki43]

Happy 50th birthday by the way Marc!!!

[Lozza]

your right about the 500 John I put it up against bro's new 450 and smoked him 7 out 7 starts over a 100 yards.

New 4 stroke 450s are fast enough ..... but I wouldn't rate one against equivalent capacity 2 stroke, open class 2 stroke defintiely feels faster. 

Yes 500 2 strokes feel fast but most times a 450 4 stroke will out accelerate the 500 on dirt with better traction and power delivery. Even motard racers switched to 4 strokes for their ease of use.

That's 90% down to frame and suspension development. The rest is traction which I think would be an easy issue to solve, or go a long way to ameliorate. The fact that a 350 gets better traction is a pointer that you just have far to much torque for the tyre to cope with.